Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
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Jeremy Corbyn.
- Thread starter Diablo
- Start date
Very good.
pastafarian
Well-known member
Bit different accidentally sharing a stage with an anti Semite or holocaust denier at certain left wing rallies(problems like that are bound to crop up) but owen jones makes no reference that Corbyn attacked the decision to ban Jahjah from entering Britain,met him,ate with him and still said he didnt know who the guy was.......maybe im being too judgemental about his memory the bloke is getting on a bit.
I wonder if he also forgets he knows and wrote on behalf of Jawad Botmeh ,the bloke convicted of involvement in the London car bombs at the Israeli embassy and a Jewish charity centre
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
Just read Jones's blog and I take on board the fact that Corbyn, along with all politicians, meets lots of people with unsavoury views as part of his job. That doesn't take away one part from what I wrote though. He either has a very bad memory or he's lying about not knowing of Jahjah. And Jones blog does not address Corbyn's donations to organisations, it doesn't mention the glowing references and donatiohe gives to people that he knows are dodgy.
I also think Jones is being very coy when he says that the likes of Blair and Thatcher have got away with minimal scrutiny regarding their links to murderous regimes such as Saudi Arabia. Firstly, no they haven't. Blair is hounded daily and quite rightly about how much money he makes from his links both from within the press and the Labour Party. Secondly, is Jones saying that because he perceives Blair and Thatcher to have been treated lightly that Corbyn should be afforded the same light touch that Jones abhors?
Thirdly, Blair and Thatcher have/had those links for political expediency by virtue of their positions of power. Corbyn, we are told is different; man of principle who can afford to have principles because he is a maverick and beholden to no-one. Why then did he knowingly continue to be a mouthpiece for PressTV, the Iranian Government propaganda machine and as awful, as homophobic, as anti-semitic and murderous as the Saudi government that Jones mentions? Corbyn was even criticised by Ofcom for his involvement. I'd like to know Jones's views on that.
Hotchilidog
Well-known member
- Jan 24, 2009
- 8,722
Still don't get what you are accusing JC of. He is not an an anti-semite, he has spent his political career campaigning against racism and for peaceful resolutions to conflicts when others are happy to go to war at the drop of a hat.
There are people in the middle east with despicable views, well that's hardly news, and plenty of them are in the Israeli government and the Saudi royal family too. You cannot move for people with repugnant views in the middle east, but if you want to get stuff done you will have to take deep breath and sit down and talk with them at some point.
British foreign policy has been an unmitigated disaster over the last decade, hundreds of thousands are dead, millions are displaced, and more people (in the countries we have destabilised) live with the threat of violent death than ever before. In addition to that we now live in a society where the politics of fear is used to justify an ever increasing assault on civil liberties.
Corbin offers a fresh approach to foreign policy and I welcome it.
Very very much this. The accusations only come from the corners of the press where I'd expect it. And these are clearly corners where there's an agenda. As I say, if this is the best they can do......
Horton's halftime iceberg
Blooming Marvellous
What I love about the whole JC wave of populism, is a lot on the right have been totally churned by it, Fukuyama the end of history is nearly 25 years old, yet total free market control has never been meet. Governments fund banks, railways, health, education to name a few, all a paid for by taxes.
Over 400,000 have signed up to the party since the leader debates and by using the US system of signing people up have over 600,000 supporting it both financially and in principle. Compare this to the Conservatives 144,0000 UKIP 45,000 SNP now have 120,000 Greens 68,000 Lib Dems 61,000. They have a great base in which to oppose and challenge a government.
Even if his ideas do not chime with a lot of middle England, JC can wins votes back elsewhere and in the 34% of people that did not vote and includes a lot of young people. Its a shame he is not about political reform but this would at least give him or AB,YC or LK a shot at winning over one of the key marginals is it about 180 set that win you an election after you bank your non swing seats.
The right at the moment just seem to be taking odd potshots at JC because he is different and I liked Ken Livingstone's view that he is the lefts Nigel Farage, people relate to him, stuff doesn't stick, he appeals to a lot of people for appearing honest, answering questions and actually having a plan and not fudging, whatever side you are on, he has certainly made a huge impact as this long and varied thread is testimony too.
Over 400,000 have signed up to the party since the leader debates and by using the US system of signing people up have over 600,000 supporting it both financially and in principle. Compare this to the Conservatives 144,0000 UKIP 45,000 SNP now have 120,000 Greens 68,000 Lib Dems 61,000. They have a great base in which to oppose and challenge a government.
Even if his ideas do not chime with a lot of middle England, JC can wins votes back elsewhere and in the 34% of people that did not vote and includes a lot of young people. Its a shame he is not about political reform but this would at least give him or AB,YC or LK a shot at winning over one of the key marginals is it about 180 set that win you an election after you bank your non swing seats.
The right at the moment just seem to be taking odd potshots at JC because he is different and I liked Ken Livingstone's view that he is the lefts Nigel Farage, people relate to him, stuff doesn't stick, he appeals to a lot of people for appearing honest, answering questions and actually having a plan and not fudging, whatever side you are on, he has certainly made a huge impact as this long and varied thread is testimony too.
That's 34% of the electorate that didn't vote - in addition,there are also an estimated 7.5m people eligible to vote who aren't on the electoral roll. JC is also looking to target many of these (it's thought that a lot of them are students). Corbyn's not getting all these people voting but if he can get just a fifth, that's about 4m extra voters - that would make a huge difference. And he wouldn't have to take a single vote back from the Tories
Horton's halftime iceberg
Blooming Marvellous
With our political system it depends where they are i.e swing seats, but he cam also win back seats in Scotland where the Tories cannot
larus
Well-known member
Interesting article on the BBC today. It starts with....
Jeremy Corbyn has pledged to use the backing of party members to force Labour MPs to support his agenda if he is elected leader.
Calling for "real democracy", the left-winger said MPs should not "stand in the way" of "empowering party members".
Mr Corbyn defended his own rebellions, saying they had been "principled".
That's what I like to see. Someone, who when they rebel, it's principled, but when in power, don't want rebellions against them. Hypocrisy?; what, Corbyn? No, never.
Reminds me of an old 'joke'.
"Comrade, come the revolution, we'll all drive round in big, black cars and get to smoke cigars".
"What if I don't want to drive around in big black cars and smoke cigars?".
"Comrade, come the revolution, you'll do what you're bloody well told".
Jeremy Corbyn has pledged to use the backing of party members to force Labour MPs to support his agenda if he is elected leader.
Calling for "real democracy", the left-winger said MPs should not "stand in the way" of "empowering party members".
Mr Corbyn defended his own rebellions, saying they had been "principled".
That's what I like to see. Someone, who when they rebel, it's principled, but when in power, don't want rebellions against them. Hypocrisy?; what, Corbyn? No, never.
Reminds me of an old 'joke'.
"Comrade, come the revolution, we'll all drive round in big, black cars and get to smoke cigars".
"What if I don't want to drive around in big black cars and smoke cigars?".
"Comrade, come the revolution, you'll do what you're bloody well told".
That's true. But those numbers are big, if they're distributed evenly, that's an extra 6,500 per seat. That would make a huge difference to the vast majority of seats... and that's before he wins back SNP, Green and UKIP voters.
It's not going to be easy: if people are out of the habit of voting, then they're not easily persuaded back but it's a strategy that worked for Barack Obama and who's to know it won't work over here?
larus
Well-known member
What about the New Labour votes he would lose? Not an insubstantial amount I guess.
Yes, there may well be some but remember that Labour has already lost a lot of those New Labour voters (43% in 1997, 28% in 2010, the last really NL election - Miliband was New Labour with some Old Labour thrown in).
Historically, 28% is the party's lowest share - it got that in 1983 too. Corbyn may lose the party a few more but I think he'll recover a lot more
larus
Well-known member
I think you should factor in that by the next election, there will have been an EU referendum, so UKIP are likely to be less important by then. Their percentage of the vote will drop, and this will more than likely increase the Tory vote.
The days of left/right should be over, but I fear that with Corbyn, Labour is going back there. The bigger issues are at an inter-governmental level. Sorting out global tax-avoidance by large corporations; not worrying about whether someone who earn £250,000 is paying 40% or 50% tax.
Think I'll add "Corbyn supports the IRA" to the list of NSC cliches.
Albumen
Don't wait for me!
Forum Fact no. 3677654
I agree that the UKIP will be less important but I don't agree that will increase the Tory vote. That was the theory before the election but, in fact, UKIP took votes from Labour and Tories.
As I see it, there are three types of UKIP voter. Those who are out and out racists and xenophobes; those who absolutely detest the EU and those who are disgruntled with the two main parties -either because of the identikit politicians (all PPE and researcher/advisor backgrounds) or because of the expenses scandal and a sense they're on the gravy train.
Corbyn won't win any votes from the first sort but an old Eurosceptic like him is likely to pick votes from the second group and could well pick up from the third one too. It's a mistake to think that only far-lefties support Corbyn, I've heard several people say they like his honesty and plain speaking.
Horton's halftime iceberg
Blooming Marvellous
In my work people that are not interested in politics know who he is and like him, inspiring them to actually vote may be the issue, but many have said they like him and would.
Horton's halftime iceberg
Blooming Marvellous
He's done for Murdoch and Brand are both backing him, I not sure JC likes the Sun
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/steerpike/2015/08/rupert-murdoch-comes-out-in-support-of-jeremy-corbyn/
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/steerpike/2015/08/rupert-murdoch-comes-out-in-support-of-jeremy-corbyn/