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[Politics] Italy elects a 'far right' government
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We seems to be heading in the opposite direct, at the moment.
JRM4PM then ?
... to expand a bit on this:
Humans adhere to paradigms, which can be explained as worldviews that we generally take for granted. Examples include that we divide the year into four seasons or a day into 24 hours. We take these as true without questioning them... similarly we think "to go to work is the right thing to do because otherwise I can't buy things and I'd starve = work is good" or "this paper with numbers on has value because if we think it doesn't, we're in trouble and our world collapse".
We don't want paradigms to change, we object to it. But they sometimes change anyway, because we always exchange symbols (such as words or sounds or pictures). Symbols are coded information, we take the information (not necessarily true or false, just information) and our brains process it for us, and there it turns into thoughts. As long as the exchange of symbols remain the same, paradigms usually do as well.
If we go back some 500 years ago, before most people could read, our exchange of symbols generally looked like this:
Individual <--symbols--- Priest
Sure, when we interacted with each other it was like it always has:
Individual <-----symbols------> Individual
But since the only outside influence, who had a greater set of symbols and more power to distribute those, the priest would also control that indvidual-to-individual interaction, as they had received their symbols not from reading and not from the press and not from (other than very selective God-loving) art.
Hence, God was God.
Then some weirdo thought it would be nice if people in general could also read because societies where becoming more complex and the need for other information than "God is God" were necessary. This meant new forms of symbol/information exchange:
Individual <--- Book saying God might not be God
Of course, as with every paradigm shift, there was a lot of resistance that later grow into chaos. As God was no longer (not always at least, this was a centuries long process) God, the King was no longer King, and the French revolution happened and created new paradigms, most of which still exist today (democracy is good, can't live without a parliament, the right-left political scale will always be with us and whatnot).
With the advent of telecommunications - TV, radio, phones, easier way of travelling - people in the 20s and 30s received another new way of exchanging (and receiving) symbols. Among other things, there were movies, and since Jews - who generally did not adopt Christian values and kept their own set of symbols - were pioneers in eg film making, the new set of symbols/information was kind of a culture shock for the current paradigm in a lot of European countries. For instance, things like sexuality were not as taboo in the Jewish community as they were in prudent Germany. Hence people got angry again, there was even this bloke (Hitler) who started a party for all of those who hated the new information and those who spread it. The old world was trying to resist the new. Eventually we reached acceptance that things like naked women, psychology and people with different skin colours actually would not kill us, and a new paradigm was created where these things were accepted (at least more than before).
In the last twenty years, yet again the exchange of symbols has changed in a remarkable manner and here we are in a crisis, not really knowing what to do with the world, we're not even quite sure who to blame, but lots of people sure know they feel uncomfortable in a world without norms and set paradigms, so they desperately try to go back.
The thing is that "nazism and/or racism will never rise again because..." is also a paradigm, and could also be changed if people receive symbols telling them that it is the way to go. Ultimately, racism is not evil by nature - nothing that won't kill us is - just like being nice to your mother isn't good by nature: there's no laws in universe controlling these things, the perception of what is good or bad are just human inventions - which also means they could change. Today we think robbery is bad, tomorrow - if the we receive enough symbols that incidate it - we could think robbery is good. "We'll never turn into nazis again" is a promise as strong as "We'll never lose our faith in a Christian God". It is easy to say, but there's nothing that supports those takes other than the current paradigm. The unfortunate reality is that our brains are merely computers made out of meat, and could be programmed with symbols/information.
Unfortunately, the new symbol exchange system (the Internet) stood and weighed for years between becoming a free symbol exchange, which would have been pretty cool, or mainly an exchange between what I call "superindividuals" (governments, religions and corporations) which do not behave as humans nor necessarily wants us to thrive, and as things turned out the latter model is winning, meaning we as individuals have a very low level of impact (comparable to when only priests could read and write) as the amount of symbols received from superindividuals (which are not rarely contradicting each other, creating a further crisis in the creation of new paradigms) exceeds the exchange of symbols between human individuals. What finally will be is not really in the hands of the many - for "good" or "bad", I suppose.
We'll land into... something... sooner or later. But for now it is a bumpy ride and people want to go back to when it wasn't all that bumpy.
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- #6
MattBackHome
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 11,731
No idea what JRM4PM is
- Apr 5, 2014
- 23,599
Pardon
I got it.
In summary:
Whether they believe it or not, people are programmed by subliminal and conspicuous stimulation.
If something is in the headlines long enough it becomes a thing when it may not even be a thing.
NSC is an example. Someone starts a thread about something on here. It becomes a thing in folk's thinking. Multiply that millions of times over and it becomes a bad thing. When, in the grander scheme, it was probably never a thing in the first place.
And that is why folk talk about going back. Yet they forget that things were just as changeable then.
Some countries hate homosexuals for example. Why ? because they are taught it's a bad thing by their prompts and indoctrination
Sixty years ago we thought that too. But then the images changed. And now, mostly, we don't. And we can't understand why we did. That's because the brain doesn't register beyond it's current programming.
And that is how it works. There is no good or bad. Just perception.
That's quite scary because it means bad things (as we see them now) can quickly become good.
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- #11
I have expressed my opinion on another thread recently about the EU and from my part a certain amount of regret about voting to leave, but I wonder what many NSC Europhiles think about so many of the member states lurching so far to the right. Somehow I don't think Italy is the end of the story.
Jacob Rees-Mogg for Prime MInister a Tory MP that looks like he is from the 18th ccentury and would welcome back work houses for the poor.
That is my guess
- Apr 5, 2014
- 23,599
sydney
tinky ****in winky
Europe is being over run by outsiders and the way of life , standard of living and general fiscal and proprietary well being are almost at a point of non recovery and yet still more foreigners arrive with hands outstretched.........some people will give them the shirt off their backs , the food from their plates or donate to the point where they are compromised themselves ......most will get the raging hump and vote for parties that promise to do something about it.
Sure, they will. With no right IMO, as we Europeans (and our buddies in the US and Saudi/Israel) are the main reasons the countries of these immigrants are borderline uninhabitable. Bomb the shit out of countries, arm terrorists and cults in them, steal their resources... yeah no shit they're going to flee from it.
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- #16
mm interesting viewpoint, wondered what swanny was saying. And that is how it works. There is no good or bad. Just perception. not sure about that bit though.
So if it's not perception, then what determines what is good or evil? Is there some law of nature deciding? How do you measure it without using your subjective perception?
The summary is that he has special insight into things the rest of us can't possible understand, although we could if we were not so naïve, gullible, programmed and subservient.
It is exactly the same narrative that Das Reich used to give us, except that Swanny has different special knowledge from PPF, and had drawn completely different conclusions.
And because I'm left of centre I agree with some of Swannys' views, and none of PPF's. I signal my confirmation bias with the occasional thumbs up.
Someone asked a question about how remainers feel about the EU lurching to the right. Sad, I'd say. If the agenda is to save white people from foreigners, the right wing governments will soon find that they will have to pursue compulsory repatriation, but they won't. It will be interesting to see how soon a right wing government grinds to a halt when they find they simply can't deliver on their promises without dragging people out of their hoses and throwing them into the sea. I recall one of the first BNP councilors elected in somewhere like Eltham. He resigned after a while after finding that he was spending most of his time trying to sort out local residents' social housing problems. Pub talk (especially public bar talk) is not the stuff of effective government, and these silly right wing buggers won't be in power for long.
Did everybody on this thread have boredom pie for lunch or something?
- Apr 5, 2014
- 23,599
You would say that though. Look at this way.
If you were born in a Muslim country, following a strict Islamic doctrine, would you believe or practice your life at is now ? You would be a totally different person because during the early years your brain had no facility to do anything but absorb its influences.
It's hard to accept, but we are all a product of our environment to the largest degree and anything contrary is inferior or tolerated (even though we like to claim otherwise). Most of what we embrace in other environments is done so because it is not perceived as a threat.
This is why we are so protective of boundaries and borders. But they are all synthetic.
Swanny has a strong handle on this, even if he doesn't articulate it perfectly all the time. But that is a cultural thing. What some don't realise is that if he wasn't non-native he would be viewed differently by many. I will be challenged on that. But what I have written I have written. It's inner programming and folk don't realise they are doing it.
I often articulate similar views to Swanny but rarely get challenged, or at least not ridiculed or abused, because I put them in a different way and I'm not an outsider.