Hughton: "I have no doubts we'll be ready come that first game of the season."

[spanish flair]

No, he wasn't naive, just wrong.

You didn't say that he promised promotion but that the fans interpreted it as such.

Is it not possible for fans to keep an open mind?

I am actually keeping an open mind with regard to the quality of signings this season, until I have seen them play.
But you cannot stop fans comparing what happened last year, which was nearly a disaster, with what is currently being brought into the squad.
My post which you picked up on was, in reply to a post which stated that fans should lower their expectations and my response was why should they when they hear and read the chairman's statements, hopes, promises or expectations, or whatever you want to call them.
I hope that clears that up.

 

[Withdean11]

I think the squad we have today is a relegation waiting to happen. We're in the same old mess as last season heading toward the first game without having our business done. . How's that for perspective? For a good poker player Bloom is terrible at knowing when he needs to gamble and by how much to move this club forward and last years disastrous decision by him have set us back years.

I agree. We have lost our most creative player in Tex and have not yet replaced him. We are not going to score goals. Ulloa/Murray would struggle to score in this team. 2 wingers and an attacking midfielder are a MUST.

 

[Knotty]

I am actually keeping an open mind with regard to the quality of signings this season, until I have seen them play.
But you cannot stop fans comparing what happened last year, which was nearly a disaster, with what is currently being brought into the squad.
My post which you picked up on was, in reply to a post which stated that fans should lower their expectations and my response was why should they when they hear and read the chairman's statements, hopes, promises or expectations, or whatever you want to call them.
I hope that clears that up.

It does. I'm pleased that you are keeping an open mind too. In my, view it's the only way to be. Being overly optimistic or pessimistic is just stupid.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I disagree. The problem with Brighton and Hove Albion in the last 100 years has been a lack of ambition, expectation and desire to succeed. Many fans strangely also judge our club after it was left with no ground, second from bottom of the football league and playing in Gillingham / Withdean. The fact that this club could survive such nonsense shows the depth of support. This club has to change its mentality. I judge all clubs in an equal way and I would invite others to do so. When doing so, just ask yourself why a club who will get 23,000 to 30,000 every week for second tier football has done so little. One Charity Shield in 1910 and one FA Cup final appearance in 1983. But still the fan base is there. The problem with this club is that the footballing side of the club never, but never delivers. That is why people are negative. There is no belief for a very good reason. In fact, when it seemed the club might just for once get it right, they then hand over Glen Murray to Crystal Palace of all clubs. If this club would for once produce a successful side then the negativity will lessen. People are negative for a reason, just look at the tripe we have watched in our life times. But still we support the club. Patience? Palace didnt bother with that when they were living off 11000 paying punters and they got promoted. That is realism, and perspective, it is just a different realism and perspective to yours.

Same old boring record.

The game's changed a bit since 1910. In fact it's changed a bit since we moved to the Amex. But let's not start there with this.

Let's start instead with your hypothesis that we have shown a "lack of ambition and expectation" in the last 100 years. And that's all it is unless you happen to be the world's oldest man and have conveniently forgotten to tell anyone. You haven't lived for 100 years let alone been a fly on the wall of the boardroom for that long. However, the very crowd sizes you quote started to peak at a time we were certainly showing ambition. From signing Clough and Taylor onwards the Bamber era made a concerted push for the top division and made it. We got Ward from nowhere but purchases like Michael Robinson and Andy Ritchie were more headline grabbing for their time than our landing Vicente. Of course what happened to all that spending? It nearly killed the club. The financial issues that led to the Archer and Bellotti years can be directly traced back to our ambition to go up in the 70s.

Nor was that the last time. The current circumspect spending (actually not though, I'm sure Chaily Jem can confirm but our budget is around 10th in this league) can also be traced directly back to another big overspend. TB knew perfectly well we had to be in The Championship at least when we moved in to the Amex and he ruthlessly cut Slade, brought in Poyet, brought in players like Noone, Wood, Kishishev,and we pissed that league. Then, in only our second season we came within 180 minutes of going up with players like Bridge, Upson and Vicente in the side. If that's not ambition what is?

Unfortunately. at the same time, Ken Brown was spunking bucket loads of cash on infrastructure to accomodate the thousands you talk about who have filled the stadium to its increased capacity precisely twice. While that was going on Sky upped the difference between Premier League and the Championship, in financial terms, to almost unreachable levels. You've got dubious foreign investors across the board, even at Bournemouth (who also prove that crowd size and ambition do not always go hand in hand) and an FFP system that seems to treat QPR and Blackburn in completely different ways.

Your whole argument can be boiled down to the fact that you think Tony Bloom's ambitions do not match what our seething millions of die hard noisy fans demand and it's bollocks.

 

[Working class pride]

Same old boring record.

Your whole argument can be boiled down to the fact that you think Tony Bloom's ambitions do not match what our seething millions of die hard noisy fans demand and it's bollocks.

From you or me? Try to debate without insult.

This statement shows that you completely misunderstand the point of my post. I simply explain why there is a very justified negativity in a fan base for a massively under achieving football club. I notice that you fail deal with the point I make about clubs such as palace, who when in the Championship had 11,000 paying punters plus free tickets to make up their gates, but still got promotion. There is one thing I do agree with however and that is that football has changed. It has and so have the fans. There is no point telling fans of BHA that they should not expect success any more. These days people are better at comparing clubs than the days when we were in the Third Division South. People didnt think "hang on we are better supported than everyone around us, so why are we not doing better?", people do now and so they should. Name another club from say Number 11 in the Premier League through to the rest of the football league who can call upon 23,000 to 30,000 to pay for lower half second tier football. I cant think of many, can you? This club has failed and mentality must change. Expectation is a must.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

There is no way that we are going anywhere other than bottom 3 with this squad. We have known for months what we need and yet nobody at the club seems to be doing anything, while every other club in the championship is signing proven players at this level. Hughton has to be one of the most boring managers we have ever employed with none of the flair attacking football which we became known for.

I can't see what Barber does to justify his salary and unless TB puts his hand in his pocket and signs some serious championship attackers we are only going down.

The season hasn't started yet and the window has weeks left to run. For the last 2 seasons we have taken young attacking players on loan from top clubs that we could never have afforded to buy once the premier squads are announced. 1 or 2 permanent signings and a couple of good attacking season long loans and we will be sorted. It's not ideal to do it so late, but that is the way football transfers are now. We will be working hard behind the scenes right up to the last minute.

A couple of signings and a couple of loans and we can make top 6.

Right, I'm ready for 'I told you so' at Xmas

You are probably right

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Nobody is disagreeing with that. But the number of so-called 'fans' of our club who actively enjoy being misers is fast becoming an embarrassment. Arguing amongst ourselves about which 'crew' is the worst influence in the NS. Snide, self-satisfied little digs at Barber and Bloom and the pies and FFP and queues and trains and the ticket line and loans and Nathan Jones and stewarding. Click on any thread on here. Any tweet or Facebook post by the club. What do you see? Dickheads being dickheads because they want to be able to say "I told you so" if we lose. The types who boo JFC when he's announced in the 18. The types who can't wait to go to the fans forum to moan at Bloom for not spending enough. And then there's the likes of me, neutral to the club's business, who get branded "rose-tinted spectacle wearing club lickers" because we're not throwing our toys out of the pram and wailing to the high heavens because we're not bidding for Jordan Rhodes. The same people who moaned we spent too much on CMS, want us to splash out twice as much on a "proven" name who could be just as poor, or snap a cruciate in the first game. These are the same people who moaned like spoilt brats when we were in the playoffs, and absolutely DELIGHTED themselves last season when we were struggling. The same people who slagged off Barnes to no end, and now see we could do with him back.

Here's an idea. Have a day off. Enjoy the sunshine. Have a cup of tea. Read a book. Walk the dog. Call the parents. Take up swimming. Learn Spanish. Enjoy life. Then, when the rage has subsided, meet back at the Amex in a fortnight and have a pie and a beer with your mates and a hearty sing song. Because this constant, 24/7, ever-escalating impotent angst is showing people up for the childish, petty, pitiful examples of 'adults' that they are.

The collective blood pressure of this forum would pierce the ionosphere.

I wish I could give this more than one thumbs up.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I agree. We have lost our most creative player in Tex and have not yet replaced him. We are not going to score goals. Ulloa/Murray would struggle to score in this team. 2 wingers and an attacking midfielder are a MUST.

In the ARTICLE sticky thread at the top of the forum, are the stats for Hemed, one of which is his record for assists. I think Hemed & Baldock will form a good partnership, providing they stay uninjured.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Looking forward to seeing Jack Harper play when he's recovered from injury.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Perhaps part of that is because a vast number of home fans are so relentlessly negative they actually seem to enjoy huffing and puffing, and booing their team because they're drawing, rather than get behind them for 90 minutes come what may?

Just a thought.

Boooooooooooo

 

[Guinness Boy]

From you or me? Try to debate without insult.

This statement shows that you completely misunderstand the point of my post. I simply explain why there is a very justified negativity in a fan base for a massively under achieving football club. I notice that you fail deal with the point I make about clubs such as palace, who when in the Championship had 11,000 paying punters plus free tickets to make up their gates, but still got promotion. There is one thing I do agree with however and that is that football has changed. It has and so have the fans. There is no point telling fans of BHA that they should not expect success any more. These days people are better at comparing clubs than the days when we were in the Third Division South. People didnt think "hang on we are better supported than everyone around us, so why are we not doing better?", people do now and so they should. Name another club from say Number 11 in the Premier League through to the rest of the football league who can call upon 23,000 to 30,000 to pay for lower half second tier football. I cant think of many, can you? This club has failed and mentality must change. Expectation is a must.

Well we're not "massively underachieving". You've fallen in to the same trap as fans of Sheffield Wednesday or Leeds who think they have a divine right to be in the top half of the Premier League because they take numbers away. Arrogance based purely on the number of people who turn up and nothing else. We're not the MK Dons but we're not Newcastle either. We're about where we should be.

Earlier this summer I posted a Sky statistical study that showed where teams sat in a league table of percentage of fans buying tickets compared to capacity of ground, We came 26th. So using that measure we finished exactly where we should have under Oscar with a blip last season, And what did last season do to our actual bums on seats numbers? Did the masses pour in to Falmer using the intimidating noise generated by a 30,000 crowd to roar us to unlikely victory? No, about 18,000 die hards turned up to moan, I should know, I was one of them.

You can't know the precise figure Palace got through the ground any more than you can know what our ambitions were 100 years ago but you've ignored the response I gave regarding the fact we were 180 minutes - in fact probably a crossbar width - away from it being us and not them. You seem to have forgotten, like most on here, that we actually finished above them in the regular season that year as we did in the season before that. After that the gap is simply Sky money,, not a sudden remarkable show of ambition from the CEO of Tag.

 

[KZNSeagull]

I agree. We have lost our most creative player in Tex and have not yet replaced him. We are not going to score goals. Ulloa/Murray would struggle to score in this team. 2 wingers and an attacking midfielder are a MUST.

Whilst I agree we have not replaced Tex yet, our 2 most creative players in terms of assists are still in the squad. Problem is, no-one appears to rate them very highly.

 

[NooBHA]

I disagree. The problem with Brighton and Hove Albion in the last 100 years has been a lack of ambition, expectation and desire to succeed. Many fans strangely also judge our club after it was left with no ground, second from bottom of the football league and playing in Gillingham / Withdean. The fact that this club could survive such nonsense shows the depth of support. This club has to change its mentality. I judge all clubs in an equal way and I would invite others to do so. When doing so, just ask yourself why a club who will get 23,000 to 30,000 every week for second tier football has done so little. One Charity Shield in 1910 and one FA Cup final appearance in 1983. But still the fan base is there. The problem with this club is that the footballing side of the club never, but never delivers. That is why people are negative. There is no belief for a very good reason. In fact, when it seemed the club might just for once get it right, they then hand over Glen Murray to Crystal Palace of all clubs. If this club would for once produce a successful side then the negativity will lessen. People are negative for a reason, just look at the tripe we have watched in our life times. But still we support the club. Patience? Palace didnt bother with that when they were living off 11000 paying punters and they got promoted. That is realism, and perspective, it is just a different realism and perspective to yours.

One Charity Shield in 1910 and one FA Cup final appearance in 1983. But still the fan base is there


Just not the same fans I hope or that could explain why there isn't much noise at some matches

 

[spanish flair]

One Charity Shield in 1910 and one FA Cup final appearance in 1983. But still the fan base is there


Just not the same fans I hope or that could explain why there isn't much noise at some matches

You can tell the ones who were at the Charity Shield game, they are the ones wearing bowlers or flat caps.

 

[BBassic]

Well we're not "massively underachieving". You've fallen in to the same trap as fans of Sheffield Wednesday or Leeds who think they have a divine right to be in the top half of the Premier League because they take numbers away. Arrogance based purely on the number of people who turn up and nothing else. We're not the MK Dons but we're not Newcastle either. We're about where we should be.

Earlier this summer I posted a Sky statistical study that showed where teams sat in a league table of percentage of fans buying tickets compared to capacity of ground, We came 26th. So using that measure we finished exactly where we should have under Oscar with a blip last season, And what did last season do to our actual bums on seats numbers? Did the masses pour in to Falmer using the intimidating noise generated by a 30,000 crowd to roar us to unlikely victory? No, about 18,000 die hards turned up to moan, I should know, I was one of them.

You can't know the precise figure Palace got through the ground any more than you can know what our ambitions were 100 years ago but you've ignored the response I gave regarding the fact we were 180 minutes - in fact probably a crossbar width - away from it being us and not them. You seem to have forgotten, like most on here, that we actually finished above them in the regular season that year as we did in the season before that. After that the gap is simply Sky money,, not a sudden remarkable show of ambition from the CEO of Tag.

There should be a way to auto-thumbs up posts from certain users. I seem to hit that green button for yours on a regular basis.

 

[Guinness Boy]

There should be a way to auto-thumbs up posts from certain users. I seem to hit that green button for yours on a regular basis.

Only one way to respond to that

 

[GT49er]

There is no point telling fans of BHA that they should not expect success any more. These days people are better at comparing clubs than the days when we were in the Third Division South. People didnt think "hang on we are better supported than everyone around us, so why are we not doing better?", people do now and so they should.

Actually people thought exactly that when we were in the Third Division South. It was a commonly held belief that the board didn't want promotion as it would vastly increase the travelllng costs, having to play teams 'up north'. Whether there was any truth in that, heaven knows, but the belief was reinforced when it was announced that the two lowest divisions were to become divisions three and four, both fully nationwide; Brighton promptly won promotion in the last ever season of Third Division South.

 

[NooBHA]

You can tell the ones who were at the Charity Shield game, they are the ones wearing bowlers or flat caps.

I would have thought the ones who were at the Charity Shield match would be wearing ''wooden overcoats'' and not flat caps

 

[Working class pride]

Actually people thought exactly that when we were in the Third Division South. It was a commonly held belief that the board didn't want promotion as it would vastly increase the travelllng costs, having to play teams 'up north'. Whether there was any truth in that, heaven knows, but the belief was reinforced when it was announced that the two lowest divisions were to become divisions three and four, both fully nationwide; Brighton promptly won promotion in the last ever season of Third Division South.

Yes true, I have heard the same theories from my family. Perhaps I should have said that people don't want the Albion to do the same again.

 

[Working class pride]

Well we're not "massively underachieving". You've fallen in to the same trap as fans of Sheffield Wednesday or Leeds who think they have a divine right to be in the top half of the Premier League because they take numbers away. Arrogance based purely on the number of people who turn up and nothing else. We're not the MK Dons but we're not Newcastle either. We're about where we should be.

Earlier this summer I posted a Sky statistical study that showed where teams sat in a league table of percentage of fans buying tickets compared to capacity of ground, We came 26th. So using that measure we finished exactly where we should have under Oscar with a blip last season, And what did last season do to our actual bums on seats numbers? Did the masses pour in to Falmer using the intimidating noise generated by a 30,000 crowd to roar us to unlikely victory? No, about 18,000 die hards turned up to moan, I should know, I was one of them.

You can't know the precise figure Palace got through the ground any more than you can know what our ambitions were 100 years ago but you've ignored the response I gave regarding the fact we were 180 minutes - in fact probably a crossbar width - away from it being us and not them. You seem to have forgotten, like most on here, that we actually finished above them in the regular season that year as we did in the season before that. After that the gap is simply Sky money,, not a sudden remarkable show of ambition from the CEO of Tag.

Just a few points

1. Why do you think that a statistic showing how full a ground is, is remotely relevant to the potential of a football club? On that basis then a club who might have a ground of say 90,000 but only get say 45,000 should be in the Championship because the ground is half full. Of all the pointless statistics compiled, this one has to be the most misleading I have heard in a long time!
2. Brighton reached the play offs and lost to Palace. I recognise that and that was failure, losing to a club that had less than half the amount of paying punters in the same division than us.
3. We are massively under achieving and always have done (see someone else's post about 3rd div south days if you wont take it from me). I again ask you to list the clubs that you think might get between 23000 to 30000 to pay every week to watch a club struggle in the second tier of English football. I will list the one's that come into my head (and apologies if I miss a couple). Now look at those clubs and look at their time spent in the top flight and trophies and then compare it to BHA. The clubs I can think of are, Man U, Everton, Liverpool, Sunderland (maybe), Newcastle (probably), Arsenal, Leeds (maybe on occasion), Spurs, West Ham (probably), Villa (maybe), Norwich, Man City (maybe), Chelsea (maybe).
4. The problem with BHA remains as it has always been, the side is nowhere near as good as it should be if this club is to even think about fulfilling its potential. Year in year out, decade in decade out the side has gone from almost not bad, to dreadful, to almost non league to almost not bad and back to dreadful again.