portslade seagull
Well-known member
Merkel has helped here as has Obama. They would have been best to keep their respective noses out of the argument. All it has done is cause damage to the remain cause
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How much is the Referendum Campaign influencing you?
- Thread starter Lord Bracknell
- Start date
Well they are politicians and when have they been particularly truthful. Boris is a opportunist with an eye on his own career I don't believe for one second that he gives a stuff about whether we are in the EU or not! Gove suggested energy tax cuts if that's not a bribe I don't know what is and Farage well he resigned as leader did'nt he and then hey presto he is leader again? And you believe that mob - dear me that's sad!
GT49er
Well-known member
So you'd prefer to believe someone who f*cks dead pigs' heads?
And you would prefer him and his like having more power, running the country released from the shackles of the EU for the next four years.
They can do an awful lot of damage in that time.
fat old seagull
New member
Well I've tried to not get involved in this, because I really haven't had an opinion one way or the other. Don't want to risk losing trade etc, but am mightily pizzed off with the immigration figures, and the pressure it puts on the NHS.
What with zillions of immigrants arriving I have perhaps leaned slightly toward 'leave', but just this evening it's crossed my mind, rightly or wrongly. At the moment, the French are duty bound to to prevent immigrants from heading our way and protecting points of departure. But if we leave my guess is they won't try to stop them leaving France, in fact may well encourage them to come over here. .... just a thought.
What with zillions of immigrants arriving I have perhaps leaned slightly toward 'leave', but just this evening it's crossed my mind, rightly or wrongly. At the moment, the French are duty bound to to prevent immigrants from heading our way and protecting points of departure. But if we leave my guess is they won't try to stop them leaving France, in fact may well encourage them to come over here. .... just a thought.
fat old seagull
New member
Do you seriously believe any of them tell the truth?
No, that's why I want the right to kick out politicians when they bugger up. As for France, well ask yourself why the EU don't take them to task for failing to insist on registration and identity taking, like fingerprints. I'll tell you why. We would then be able to return every one of them They ignore the Dublin treaty and get away with it. France should FORCE their registration at Ventimiglia and other border points under this treaty but they don't, Great the EU isn't it!
Well I've tried to not get involved in this, because I really haven't had an opinion one way or the other. Don't want to risk losing trade etc, but am mightily pizzed off with the immigration figures, and the pressure it puts on the NHS.
What with zillions of immigrants arriving I have perhaps leaned slightly toward 'leave', but just this evening it's crossed my mind, rightly or wrongly. At the moment, the French are duty bound to to prevent immigrants from heading our way and protecting points of departure. But if we leave my guess is they won't try to stop them leaving France, in fact may well encourage them to come over here. .... just a thought.
We have the UK border force on French soil because we are both members of the European Union. France in effect has agreed to share some sovereignty with us at its border, this is political acceptable because we are both in the EU. If we leave the EU why would France want to do us any favours when we've crashed the party?
Who wants them to do us favours. The French, jeez. Let the border come to Dover. If we have self determination we would then return them on the next ferry. Not hard is it?
drew
Drew
Well I've tried to not get involved in this, because I really haven't had an opinion one way or the other. Don't want to risk losing trade etc, but am mightily pizzed off with the immigration figures, and the pressure it puts on the NHS.
What with zillions of immigrants arriving I have perhaps leaned slightly toward 'leave', but just this evening it's crossed my mind, rightly or wrongly. At the moment, the French are duty bound to to prevent immigrants from heading our way and protecting points of departure. But if we leave my guess is they won't try to stop them leaving France, in fact may well encourage them to come over here. .... just a thought.
A good point. Think of Dunkirk and a flotilla of small boats landing on our shores!!! In just 8 days in May 1940, 338k troops were rescued. Not a dissimilar figure to the net migration numbers last year!!!!
I think it's more complicated than that mon ami. Push our influence outwards, push our policy choices outward. Shift debate in Europe. What you advocate to my mind is essentially a siege mentality. I want to stay in to seize initiative on current events not be shaped by them.
Just catching up with Cameron's sky event and thought he did really well. Clearly passionate and I think effective. The questioning was really tough. I think he has to make a hard sell and a lot of people were clearly very sceptical. I think the vote will be very close.
The BEF were trying to stem the tide of fascist Germany. Ok they proved inept and were forced to retreat and return via Dunkirk. Many brave people were involved in rescuing them and a lot of French too. Old men and boys manned the small boats. Brave, patriotic people. You are disgusting for that comparison.
No it's not a siege mentality. It's called belief in our people and country as well as the belief in self determination.
drew
Drew
Obviously remainers believe in the country as well. What I will say is that self-determination is only that if you are powerful enough to see your aims fulfilled. Yes we have to sacrifice total sovereignty, voluntarily and (however imperfectly) democratically, but in exchange for this our ability to drive pan-European and global change is enhanced. It is a trade-off but it actually makes us more sovereign because our world-view and policy is amplified at a European and global level, and our economy is stronger inside the EU. The bigger economy we are the bigger player we are. A weaker economy means less influence, which ultimately will see global governance carved up by the US, China and EU. This may not be in our interest, and we will have rules foisted upon us that we must abide but did not have a hand in shaping. For me this reduces our ability to determine our own future, and dilutes the country's sovereignty.
GT49er
Well-known member
Echoes of 1975 I'm afraid. Anthony Wedgwood Benn ("Do you want to support a left wing, Russia loving, pinko socialist communist red-under-the-bed") or Enoch Powell ("Fascist, right wing, racist") - if you support either of those, vote 'No' to joining the EEC then. "You wouldn't want to be associated with either of those?" the pro-EEC campaigners would say - then vote to join; that's how it was back then.
Now it's "Are you the sort of person that supports Nigel Farage or Boris Johnson" which is used by the remains to persuade the sheep to vote stay.
Why have brexit found no-one of high quality to champion them? Why is Marie Le Pen and Donald Trump the only two international politicians supporting Brexit?
