Hillsborough

[Seagull over Canaryland]

I see the Govt has now agreed to publish the background papers for the Hillsborough tragedy.

Strong feelings still abound that blame was shifted from the Authorities to the crowds. The Scousers won't get their loved ones back - but maybe get some sense of justice if they are vindicated?

I will be interested to see if the 'new' information confirms that a) all relevant evidence was made available for resulting inquiry and b) so the correct lessons were learned from the resulting Inquiry and in turn ensured that all reasonable actions were taken to make stadiums and the management of big crowds in confined spaces safer.

Could (rightly) get very messy if the answer to a) above is found to have been 'no'.

 

[strings]

Unfortunately, I do believe that there will be some nasty surprises in these documents. I can't imagine that successive governments have kept their content secret for no particular reason.

I wouldn't like to speculate on what we will learn from the release of the documents. I just have a feeling that either there will be something in there that will surprise us, or certain bits will be censored before their release.

 

[catfish]

It's about time the Scum revealed their sources for the scurrilous smears they printed in the aftermath.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Imagine if these documents prove the Sun was telling the truth all along..............

 

[Gus is god]

Imagine if these documents prove the Sun was telling the truth all along..............

what after they apologised for lies?

 

[Husty]

Anywhere taking bets on what percentage of the documents will be censored?

 

[The Large One]

Unfortunately, I do believe that there will be some nasty surprises in these documents. I can't imagine that successive governments have kept their content secret for no particular reason.

I wouldn't like to speculate on what we will learn from the release of the documents. I just have a feeling that either there will be something in there that will surprise us, or certain bits will be censored before their release.

They've asked for the documents to be released as I believe there is a strong rumour that the Prime Minister (Thatcher) ordered / told / suggested that no police officers should ever be prosecuted for what happened. So far, the refusal to release these documents seems to have increased speculation that there may be some truth in it.

Censoring those some or all documents would be considered unacceptable.

We shall see.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

I read somewhere that some of the police that were subject to accusations have since died.

I actually find it quite ironic that after years of governments, including blair and browns 13 years, it takes a Tory led government to push this through.

I just hope that these reports do not fuel the fire if it is shown that there were in fact thousands of fans descending on a ground without tickets and leaving it until the last minute. Certainly I have been to many games before and since when just that happened.

Having said all that if the police acted unlawfully and panicked into opening a gate to let hoards in, then hopefully that will also come out

 

[Sooty the Thief]

I'm really not sure what new information people are hoping to obtain from this disclosure. Surely the facts are that thousands of fans turned up without tickets hoping to rush the gates (as was the norm then for most big games), the police were scared about people getting crushed outside so opened a gate to let the fans in. The incoming fans should have been shepherded to the outer pens but were not hence the crush in the centre two pens.

Sure the police made errors that day which almost certainly cost lives but everyone knows that already don't they?

 

[The Large One]

It's GOVERNMENT papers that campaigners are after seeing, not Inquiry papers.

 

[edna krabappel]

Sure the police made errors that day which almost certainly cost lives but everyone knows that already don't they?

Is kind of what I feel about it. Who knows, maybe there is going to be some kind of bombshell, but all I can see happening is confirmation that the police superintendent in charge on the day made a decision that proved to be catastrophically wrong. I'm sure he didn't make it with any kind of malevolent intent, it was just an on the spot call made in the face of serious crushing developing outside, but it was, ultimately, badly thought out and brought about the scenario of people being crushed inside. There were other factors, which no doubt prompted the decision by Duckenfield, but the call to open the gates turned a potential disaster into an actual one.

What else is expected to come out of this, out of interest?

 

[Rookie]

I actually find it quite ironic that after years of governments, including blair and browns 13 years, it takes a Tory led government to push this through.

Had Andy Burnham from Labour at Anfield today talking about it. Seemed quite happy they were being released, was he not a member of the party when people were campaigning for release when they were in power?

 

[Arthur]

It's about time the Scum revealed their sources for the scurrilous smears they printed in the aftermath.

Lets say they do and lets say they finger the police who were trying cover themselves after their balls up (as is suspected). Do you think the scousers will stop sticking those bloody stickers everywhere?

 

[Gritt23]

what after they apologised for lies?

Kelvin McKenzie subsequently said he was forced to "apologise" despite not believing he had anything to apologise for. To him, that story remains "The Truth".

 

[Gritt23]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/mackenzies-hillsborough--the-sun-told-the-truth-426674.html

"I was not sorry then and I'm not sorry now," Mr MacKenzie told his audience. "All I did wrong there was [to] tell the truth."

What a disgusting little man.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There are other issues to be brought out into the open such as why only one ambulance was allowed to go down Leppings Lane for half an hour after the incident started. It is reckoned that some of the fans were still alive when pulled out of the crowd and could have survived if given treatment straight away.

 

[Storer 68]

It's GOVERNMENT papers that campaigners are after seeing, not Inquiry papers.

err ............................. not quite


Parliament will debate the issue later on Monday and is expected to approve a non-binding but symbolic call for the release of all relevant papers, uncensored and unredacted.

The Home Office said it broadly supported the call.

"All papers had previously been shared with the Hillsborough Independent Panel," a government spokesman said.
"The government is happy for all the papers, including Cabinet papers, to be released as soon as the panel so decides, in consultation with the families," he added.

"We expect them to be shared with the Hillsborough families first and then to the wider public."

Rather suggests that the HIP has already seen them. And it is only right and proper that the families get first sight of them.

 

[Storer 68]

There are other issues to be brought out into the open such as why only one ambulance was allowed to go down Leppings Lane for half an hour after the incident started. It is reckoned that some of the fans were still alive when pulled out of the crowd and could have survived if given treatment straight away.

I'd be suprised, having been down the Leppings Lane when there's a game about to happen, whether an ambulance (or any vehicle come to that) could have got through in time to save people.

 

[Storer 68]

What Mckenzie said....................
There was a surge of Liverpool fans - TRUE
who had been drinking TRUE
and that is what caused the disaster. DEBATABLE


In concluding many people feel that Taylor was well received in the first instance ( i.e. the Interim Report) because there seemed to be a real acknowledgement of the breakdown of police control. Perhaps it was politically expedient in the early days after the disaster when feelings were running so high to appear to be giving the people what they wanted. However, it clearly ended there. The Final Report was a shift away from away from the cause of the disaster and ever since families have been trying to regain the ground lost between the Interim Report and the present day.

 

[Brovion]

By all means release the papers, but like Edna I'm not sure what else is there to come out? I think most of us put the blame largely on the Authorities, whilst at the same time acknowledging that these were football fans, not Cliff Richard fans, and the standards of behaviour of a small minority of them left something to be desired.

Barring the revelation of a brunswick-style conspiracy that the whole thing was organised by Zionist bankers and space lizards surely all we're going to learn is which group has to shoulder which percentage of the blame? It's not going to bring anybody back and organisation of such games has moved on almost immeasurably since then. However, yes, getting anything out of a secrecy-obssessed British government is a result so in that respect I'm pleased for the Hillsborough groups.