Has the High Court abolished school term time?

[edna krabappel]

I doubt very much that missing a week of school for a reasonably well educated nine year old will make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.

But those trying to cite the "educational value" of taking them on holiday, come on, behave Taking them trekking in Peru, or exploring the sites of ancient Rome: fair enough. Sitting in a pool in Spain while your parents sunbathe with a beer & a plate of chips, or wandering around Disney World for a week doesn't quite hit the "educational" mark from where I'm sitting. Admit it: you want a holiday. Absolutely fine. But please let's not dress it up as anything else

PS: having worked for tour operators in the past, it's not so much prices being inflated for peak season. The peak season prices are the ones that cover their costs. The low season prices are the loss leaders, the ones that they slash to try and shift stock when demand is low. Don't imagine for one second that if schools suddenly binned fixed holiday dates, that everyone would be paying less for their family holidays. It's as likely to mean, quite simply, that those going in May and June (for example) would pay more.

 

[The Rivet]

Parents. Be warned. The government & department for education will seek tougher and very much tighter legal legislation. The present free for all of booking term time holidays because of the judgement will end. Soon as the process can be legally completed.

 

[Berty23]

There's a few points here. Firstly, I'll take a peer reviewed paper over a book any day. What exactly are YOUR qualifications to say the book is definitely right and everyone else is wrong?

Secondly, why discount actual experience? The smallest class I have ever taught is 2, the largest 32, and I've taught about every class size in between. 32 was way too big, 24 is managable, and yes, no matter what your book says, there will be a difference in results between those two.

How many times? The book uses many peer reviewed journals. Not one, several. It weighs up the evidence and presents conclusions. It is more like a full literature review. Try it.

 

[Berty23]

The bit that people often overlook is that yes if one kid from the class takes a week then the teacher can help them catch up. What happens if it becomes a free for all and two kids are off 15 weeks of the year? The teacher will spend the whole time catching up. How can they plan and introduce new concepts?

Parents want good schools. If attendance drops this can trigger ofsted. Ofsted may say must improve and then parents send kids elsewhere. Funding follows the kids. So it continues.

This is NOT just one kid going away. If everyone did it then it would be carnage.

 

[fork me]

How many times? The book uses many peer reviewed journals. Not one, several. It weighs up the evidence and presents conclusions. It is more like a full literature review. Try it.

Why do you keep repeating the same thing over and over?

I don't care HOW many peer reviewed journals the book uses, the book is making a study of those journals. The link I posted is also a review putting together peer reviewed studies, but that review is, itself, also peer reviewed.

Anyone can cherry pick some studies, put them in a book and claim it's a study of all of them. Unless the book itself is peer reviewed (which it isn't) that doesn't matter.

This book, which, incidentally, I have no intention whatsoever of buying, proper academic studies are published in peer reviewed journals that I would have access to, not sold as books, is the ONLY publication claiming class size makes no difference. There are NUMEROUS peer reviewed studies, which, like the book, use lot's of individual peer assessed studies and put them together that say class size does make a difference. You're insinuation that because I haven't read this book, I don;t read the research is actually insulting.

I ask again the question you seem not to want to answer, what qualifications to YOU actually have to assess the worthiness of this book against all the actual peer reviewed studies of the material?

 

[Berty23]

Why do you keep repeating the same thing over and over?

I don't care HOW many peer reviewed journals the book uses, the book is making a study of those journals. The link I posted is also a review putting together peer reviewed studies, but that review is, itself, also peer reviewed.

Anyone can cherry pick some studies, put them in a book and claim it's a study of all of them. Unless the book itself is peer reviewed (which it isn't) that doesn't matter.

This book, which, incidentally, I have no intention whatsoever of buying, proper academic studies are published in peer reviewed journals that I would have access to, not sold as books, is the ONLY publication claiming class size makes no difference. There are NUMEROUS peer reviewed studies, which, like the book, use lot's of individual peer assessed studies and put them together that say class size does make a difference. You're insinuation that because I haven't read this book, I don;t read the research is actually insulting.

I ask again the question you seem not to want to answer, what qualifications to YOU actually have to assess the worthiness of this book against all the actual peer reviewed studies of the material?

I have been an education researcher for over 10 years. I did not write the book. I wish I had.

 

[fork me]

I have been an education researcher for over 10 years. I did not write the book. I wish I had.

Really? In what field? What are your qualifications?

What actual classroom experience have you got?

 

[Berty23]

Really? In what field? What are your qualifications?

What actual classroom experience have you got?

I am a researcher not a teacher. Totally different skills required. It is a bit like arguing you can only research cancer drugs if you have had cancer or been a practising gp etc. It is nonsense. Often it can be better to have limited exposure to what you are researching so you are not subconsciously imparting confirmation bias into your research. Many of the teachers I have worked with REALLY struggle with this as they do the Hawthorne effect when they know they are involved with research.

That said I do spend lots of time in schools, I am a governor and deal with lots of teachers in work and private life.

Most of my work is around funding and system reform.

 

[fork me]

I am a researcher not a teacher. Totally different skills required. It is a bit like arguing you can only research cancer drugs if you have had cancer or been a practising gp etc.

No, it isn't like that at all.

I notice you've completely ignored the question about qualifications.

Research is not something anyone can do, for it to be valid you have to understand the difference between valid and unreliable studies, and yes, you do need some knowledge of the field you're researching.

Your lack of answers tells me all I need to know, another person with no knowledge of my job whatsoever who thinks they know better than me how to do it.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

No, it isn't like that at all.

I notice you've completely ignored the question about qualifications.

Research is not something anyone can do, for it to be valid you have to understand the difference between valid and unreliable studies, and yes, you do need some knowledge of the field you're researching.

Your lack of answers tells me all I need to know, another person with no knowledge of my job whatsoever who thinks they know better than me how to do it.

Typical teacher attitude - "Teachers are always right". Berty quite clearly researches the effects of policy - no teaching experience needed to be able to do that successfully. As for your ridiculous idea that you need qualifications to be good at something - yet another poor teacher trait. For example, anyone can get a teaching degree - it doesn't make them a good teacher. There are thousands of very good teachers in the private sector with no teaching degree.

 

[fork me]

Typical teacher attitude - "Teachers are always right". Berty quite clearly researches the effects of policy - no teaching experience needed to be able to do that successfully. As for your ridiculous idea that you need qualifications to be good at something - yet another poor teacher trait. For example, anyone can get a teaching degree - it doesn't make them a good teacher. There are thousands of very good teachers in the private sector with no teaching degree.

Firstly, I didn't say teacher's are always right, if you're going to wade in, why don't you try having a go for something I actually said, rather than something you wish I said?

As to the rest of your post, it's complete nonsense.

To be good at most things you need to have studied them one way or another.

I see no evidence whatsoever that Berty has done anything but read one book, and assume it's gospel.

 

[Berty23]

Firstly, I didn't say teacher's are always right, if you're going to wade in, why don't you try having a go for something I actually said, rather than something you wish I said?

As to the rest of your post, it's complete nonsense.

To be good at most things you need to have studied them one way or another.

I see no evidence whatsoever that Berty has done anything but read one book, and assume it's gospel.

I have written several research reports and completed more literature reviews than I could care to mention. I work closely with academics across the education research world. This includes professors from the following - uni of bath (governance) Bristol (school place supply) ucl/Sutton trust (closing the gap) LSE (system reform) Oxford (segregation) and with leading academics in the USA including the big names in the research of charter schools (CREDO) who are based at Stanford uni. I have also worked with the head chap at OECD.

The only classes I have taught are when I have been requested to be a guest speaker for Q&a sessions with a level politics students.

I have a degree in geography (human) and economics and completed qualifications in social research. Sadly my wife was diagnosed with cancer in 2010 so further studies are on hold while I look after my young family and wife and work full time. Sorry if that is not a satisfactory response.

I am slightly irritated that I justified your attack with a response. As others have said I clearly know what I am talking about.

 

[nicko31]

The busy bodies in the council aren't giving up

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-36673506