Greece crisis: Europe on edge over snap election

[TomandJerry]

"Peter Kažimír, Slovakia’s finance minister, has ruled out a Greek deal today.

It’s just not possible, he says, citing the lack of trust that the eurozone has in the Greek government."

 

[beorhthelm]

Some surprising figures there. So one of the faltering economies - i.e. Italy - is the third highest contributor along with Spain, also in trouble, in forth spot ??

the contribution is linked to each countries relative GDP: Germany is 27%, Cyrus is about 0.19% of Eurozone GDP.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

the contribution is linked to each countries relative GDP: Germany is 27%, Cyrus is about 0.19% of Eurozone GDP.

I guessed it was but GDP doesn't measure wealth or ability to pay - the countries with more people are generally going to have a larger GDP but not necessarily be as wealthy as other smaller countries. As I said, the Eurozone is a basket case glued together by political blindness, greed and corruption.

 

[TomandJerry]

Dombrovskis (EC vice-president):

“Discussions were quite complicated so we hope for more progress today. I think it’s utterly unlikely the European Commission will get a mandate to start formal negotiations as regards a third programme or ESM programme today.

But I think the Eurogroup can prepare and provide input for discussions of the leaders later today.”

 

[TomandJerry]

Proposal: Greece to be offered euro time-out if no deal

The four-page proposal on the table tonight is now circulating in Brussels.

It confirms that*Greece*could indeed by offered a ‘temporary’ exit from the eurozone if it doesn’t agree a deal with its creditors tonight.

[In case no agreement could be reached, Greece should be offered swift negotiations on a time-out from the euro area, with possible debt restructuring].

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Reckon the rest of the Eurozone just want Greece to piss off now, so they can devote a bit of their time to running their own countries and dealing with other issues.

 

[TomandJerry]

"The leaked proposal also suggests Greece hands over €50bn of “valuable Greek assets” (Possibly the Greek Islands) over to eurozone authorities to be sold off over time!

That would kick in if Greece cannot deliver “a significantly speeded up” privatisation programme.

It would be a remarkable loss of sovereignty, even for a country used to being overseen by officials from the IMF, ECB and EU for most of the last five years."

 

[TomandJerry]

Official: Tsipras given "mental waterboarding" over reform plans

Alexis Tsipras was given a very rough ride in his meeting with Tusk, Merkel and Hollande, our Europe editor Ian Traynor reports.

Tsipras was told that Greece will either become an effective “ward” of the eurozone, by agreeing to immediately implement swift reforms this week.

Or, it leaves the euro area and watches its banks collapse.

One official dubbed it “extensive mental waterboarding”, in an attempt to make the Greek PM fall into line.

An unpleasant image, that highlights just how far we have now fallen from those European standards of solidarity and unity.

 

[TomandJerry]

Syriza in shock over creditors' demands

Over in Athens there is mounting angst that if Greece is pushed too far, political turbulence will almost certainly erupt.

Our correspondent Helena Smith reports:

While Greece’s fate was being debated in Brussels, in Athens the ruling radical left Syriza party was exhibiting signs of disintegration. Demands that the controversial reforms be approved by the Greek government and enacted into law by Wednesday were described as “utter blackmail” by leading party members and met with stunned disbelief.

“Greece can bend up to a point,” said Aristides Hatzis, a prominent political commentator. “But after that there is no bending, only breaking. The breaking point may well come when Tsipras realises he has lost most of his parliamentary group.”

The embattled prime minister will also face substantial resistance from the parliament’s speaker Zoe Konstantopoulou in getting the policies fast-tracked through the House.

A Syriza hardliner, Kostantopoulou said at the weekend:

“the government is being blackmailed. The lenders are insisting on turning the “no” [of last week’s referendum] into “yes.” I could never vote for the contents of the agreement.”

 

[TomandJerry]

Greek officials have just slammed the proposals on the table tonight, in a briefing with journalists.

But while they were highly critical of chancellor Angela Merkel’s actions, European Central Bank president Mario Draghi was credited with being “very supportive”.

But Draghi needs a political signal that a deal is possible, to avoid the ECB cutting support for Greece’s banks on Monday.

 

[TomandJerry]

Greece is giving a firm Oxi to the two most controversial elements of the eurozone plan:

Greek official: €zone’s plan for privatizing €50B of greek assets is “on another planet” for @atsipras & temporary #Grexit "100 percent No.”

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Agreement has been achieved. Great news for the people of Greece, their country will now get the finance and reforms the people deserve, and good news for the union. To coin a phrase "all in it together"

#proudeuropean

 

[Westdene Seagull]

#EUStitchUp

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

#EUStitchUp

#GreeceHadTheOptionOfWithdrawingFromEuroAnd/OrEUButDecidedToStay

#ItsTheirDecisionNotYours

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

#EUStitchUp

#MutualAgreementBetweenGreeceAndEU

 

[Simster]

#EUStitchUp

Whether or not that's true, I object to the German position that they won't write off any of the debt under any circumstances. I hope the Greek parliament tell them to swivel, although I don't understand why the Greek PM seems to be crapping himself over Grexit. Well I do, but surely he must have considered it was likely if he was going to be elected on an anti austerity ticket.

 

[Hastings gull]

Official: Tsipras given "mental waterboarding" over reform plans

Alexis Tsipras was given a very rough ride in his meeting with Tusk, Merkel and Hollande, our Europe editor Ian Traynor reports.

Tsipras was told that Greece will either become an effective “ward” of the eurozone, by agreeing to immediately implement swift reforms this week.

Or, it leaves the euro area and watches its banks collapse.

One official dubbed it “extensive mental waterboarding”, in an attempt to make the Greek PM fall into line.

An unpleasant image, that highlights just how far we have now fallen from those European standards of solidarity and unity.

It is afterall only an image that someone chose to mention. As to how far European standards have fallen, well that is far more debatable. Greece has been given billions in hand-outs -how many have there been? - and with each one comes a request/demand to put their own house in order. This suggests that, left to their own devices, the Greeks would have happily continued with the old ways by and large and kept coming back for another hand-out, doubtless claiming that we in Europe should show solidarity and unity.
The Greeks had the youngest retirement age in Europe, despite a weak economy, and government coffers were low, as tax returns were left to the individual's "honesty" rather than taxed at source. I do recall reading this and when I mentioned this a few months ago, no one, not even the economists on here, disputed that, so I assume that this is how the Greeks carried on. Of course members of the Club (EU) should show unity, but not at any price, surely, and there comes a limit to anyone's patience.

 

[Hastings gull]

Whether or not that's true, I object to the German position that they won't write off any of the debt under any circumstances. I hope the Greek parliament tell them to swivel, although I don't understand why the Greek PM seems to be crapping himself over Grexit. Well I do, but surely he must have considered it was likely if he was going to be elected on an anti austerity ticket.

This stance is fine and principled, if you would apply this to yourself. If you were to lend cash to a mate, who then blew it and refused to change his ways, would you then willingly write it off? Now multiply what your reaction would be by billions and you can then perhaps see why the Germans react as they do. They are fully aware that if Greece is seen to "get away with it" then other states will follow.claiming precedent and unfair treatment. Whatever one thinks of Merkel, she has to consider the views of her electorate, who know that they will end up footing a disproportionately high bill on a country that, quite frankly, has not done much to help itself. Of course austerity has meant much regrettable hardship, but had the Greeks chosen to put their own house in order many years ago as the approaching financial abyss must have been increasingly clear to them, then they would not be in this position. But they chose not to.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

#GreeceHadTheOptionOfWithdrawingFromEuroAnd/OrEUButDecidedToStay

#ItsTheirDecisionNotYours

#GreecewroteoffGermanWWIIdebtsbutGermanywon'treturnthefavour ...... and it's bloody difficult not using the spacebar !

 

[Westdene Seagull]

This stance is fine and principled, if you would apply this to yourself. If you were to lend cash to a mate, who then blew it and refused to change his ways, would you then willingly write it off? Now multiply what your reaction would be by billions and you can then perhaps see why the Germans react as they do. They are fully aware that if Greece is seen to "get away with it" then other states will follow.claiming precedent and unfair treatment. Whatever one thinks of Merkel, she has to consider the views of her electorate, who know that they will end up footing a disproportionately high bill on a country that, quite frankly, has not done much to help itself. Of course austerity has meant much regrettable hardship, but had the Greeks chosen to put their own house in order many years ago as the approaching financial abyss must have been increasingly clear to them, then they would not be in this position. But they chose not to.

If this mate of mine had previously written off some of the money I borrowed from him then I would return the favour.