[Football] Grassroots Refs Abused and Spat at.

[Littlemo]

It seems that most fans (if this thread is a true representation) feel that tougher punishments are needed. Why then wont the FA do something?

This was 5 months ago but still nothing much is happening.Guardian

Because whilst we know what’s needed in theory, we hate it being put into practice when it goes against our team. Look at the arguments about the Wolves player being booked and sent off.

 

[studio150]

All dissent could be gone in a month.

Pre Season meeting between Howard Webb and all PL Managers and Captains, were it is laid out that all dissent is to be clamped down on from the start of the season.

Yellow cards immediately for dissent without exception, and if several players surround the referee they all get yellows.

It may mean that over the first weekend of the new season all games are abandoned given the number of red cards issued, but the message would get through.

Also change the banning period for two yellows if both card are for dissent to 6 games and 3 games if one or the two is for dissent.

It won't happen of course.

 

[albionalex]

Whilst the standard of refereeing (both at elite and grassroots level) is very poor, abuse should not be tolerated.

A body cam, as suggested by another poster, should be provided to grassroots refs and then if that does not deter abuse, at least perpetrators can be punished retrospectively.

 

[Skaville]

I witnessed a 14 year old call a ref the c word recently. He’ll serve his suspension and straight back into the side because his Dad is the manager. A valuable opportunity to teach a life lesson missed.

 

[portlock seagull]

Only thing I can do is not swear at the ref myself during games. Guess we’ve all done it, perhaps we now need to look a bit closer to home before asking players, kids, parents etc.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I ref kids games every now and again. It's thankless. First thing I do is tell them abuse won't be tolerated. Most are good as gold to be fair but there is always one even in an U12s game.

If parents start, I threaten to pull the game. If coaches start that's it.

Quite why a volunteer ref is considered fair game is beyond me. I had someone in my ear on Saturday when I was running the line. The kid was more than 5 yards off.

 

[Weststander]

One of the greatest disparities between the two, at the top / professional level, is the amount of money at stake.

Someone more knowledgeable than me can maybe advise how much the best & average Premiership rugby player earns.

And how much do the winners of the EPL win compared to the winners of the Premiership Rugby Table?

I think rugby could teach a lot of it's culture and values to football ....

#wonthappen

Rugby kids are taught from the earliest age to always respect the officials. Hockey’s similar. Parents know the score, from my experience, they seem a totally different ilk to (some) football parents. It’s a taboo to abuse or challenge the officials. Dissenters don’t return.

Rugby players going from alleged amateurs up to 1995, to pros on big salaries, didn’t change this one bit. It’s in the DNA of the sport.

 

[beorhthelm]

It seems that most fans (if this thread is a true representation) feel that tougher punishments are needed. Why then wont the FA do something?

This was 5 months ago but still nothing much is happening.Guardian

the thing is, as i understand, they already have the rules to give yellow cards for dissent and foul language, just dont use them. the question become why the hell not? and what happend to free kicks moved 10yd for messing around or did i imagine that?

 

[TheJasperCo]

My two pence: I refereed grassroots between 2006 and 2011. Kids, teens and adult county league games - it was a good little top-up to my paper round earnings each week. Probably averaged a couple of games each week and countless tournaments during the off-season in the summer.

Looking back, and I would say the majority of games passed by peacfully with no incidents. Unfortunately it is always the crappy games that stick in the memory - that U13 match at Fishersgate, the vicious rivalry between Wild Park and Hangleton, the U14 cup game between Worthing Utd and...can't even remember now.

There is no doubt that I made mistakes. Sadly I never did manage to perfect the art of omniscience, so I did let some things go or give dubious decisions. There's regret there, but to err is human and unfortunately not everyone was forgiving. Not giving a penalty was enough for players (or more usually, coaches and parents) to get in my face and have a go. Fortunately nothing physical happened.

What I would say, when I was doing it, there was no Insta, no Snapchat, no TikTok. It was the beginning of the FA's Respect campaign, and I can't honestly say it helped much long-term (clearly).

I would say that some refs were really quite twattish. In all honesty, not all refs were professional; some were very scruffy, others were completely unprofessional in their game management, even burning for a scrap. But I would never, never have, hurled abuse at refs when the majority do exercise a great deal of restraint. Especially the amateurs at grassroots level, it is an enjoyable experience but spoilt on occasion by the worst of society.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

Grassroot Refs Abused and Spat at . . .

it gets even worse than that. In an early season game in Greater Manchester, a ref having sent off one of the players, was approached in the car park after the game by the said player and some of his mates and given a good kicking.

An incident that very nearly led to the local referees downing tools.

 

[drew]

Rugby kids are taught from the earliest age to always respect the officials. Hockey’s similar. Parents know the score, from my experience, they seem a totally different ilk to (some) football parents. It’s a taboo to abuse or challenge the officials. Dissenters don’t return.

Rugby players going from alleged amateurs up to 1995, to pros on big salaries, didn’t change this one bit. It’s in the DNA of the sport.

And the reason they're taught that is because there is an instant penalty for dissent in that the ball is moved forward. Remove that and Rugby would soon deteriorate.

Penalise dissent either by moving free kicks further forward or issuing a yellow card at the first sign will bring it under control however despite the rhetoric from some quarters, I think there are vested interests that quite like the drama of a players surrounding a ref.

 

[Weststander]

And the reason they're taught that is because there is an instant penalty for dissent in that the ball is moved forward. Remove that and Rugby would soon deteriorate.

Penalise dissent either by moving free kicks further forward or issuing a yellow card at the first sign will bring it under control however despite the rhetoric from some quarters, I think there are vested interests that quite like the drama of a players surrounding a ref.

I agree.

I also think there should be a golden rule that only one person speaks with the ref at particular incidents. With meddling ‘influencers’ from the opposition staying away. I know there’s a new rule, but other than the Lemina incident, it appears to me that it’s being largely ignored.

The media, yep. R5 took the high moral ground today, but on any other occasion they absolutely love the circus and hyping with us all of VAR/refs errors.

 

[BadFish]

Whilst this is well and good us having this well meaning debate on this thread, there's a couple of other threads on here where we're massively laying into officials for a human mistake they made on Saturday. As every week referee's are abused by our fans and fans of all other teams in the ground. To be honest I feel a lot of the time, the players are playing up to the crowd and feeding off them and I think it's hypocritical for fans to criticize players for doing it when the reactions from the stands are much worse every week. That's what the kids are also learning from.

Until we as supporters can stop aggressively abusing referee's, are the players ever going to stop?

I think you are spot on. We, as fans are a big part of the culture of football and we need to start making that change as well. Social media the last couple of days has been all about that mistake on the weekend. People are losing their minds! This is what kids are hearing their parents taking about, this is what they are reading and seeing it all goes into the pot of learning how to behave.

We need to accept that refereeing mistakes are part and parcel of our game. We've bitched and complained for year about mistakes and they gave us VAR for our troubles, now we bitch and moan about that.

All the time we are criticising the 'standard of referring' we are feeding into the disrespect of the people doing it. Imho we need to stop, stop the phone ins about it, stop the abuse in the ground. My hope for VAR was that it would mean we talk about the football more often and referees less but we just switch from one to the other.

We drew at the weekend because of a VAR decision, someone made a mistake and got it wrong. But Sanchez also made a mistake, Mac allister put a free header wide, Mitoma put his shot too close to the keeper. 4 people in that game got something wrong but we only focus on the keeper . . Well and Sanchez a bit.

Maybe we need to think about our choice of scapegoat?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I think you are spot on. We, as fans are a big part of the culture of football and we need to start making that change as well. Social media the last couple of days has been all about that mistake on the weekend. People are losing their minds! This is what kids are hearing their parents taking about, this is what they are reading and seeing it all goes into the pot of learning how to behave.

We need to accept that refereeing mistakes are part and parcel of our game. We've bitched and complained for year about mistakes and they gave us VAR for our troubles, now we bitch and moan about that.

All the time we are criticising the 'standard of referring' we are feeding into the disrespect of the people doing it. Imho we need to stop, stop the phone ins about it, stop the abuse in the ground. My hope for VAR was that it would mean we talk about the football more often and referees less but we just switch from one to the other.

We drew at the weekend because of a VAR decision, someone made a mistake and got it wrong. But Sanchez also made a mistake, Mac allister put a free header wide, Mitoma put his shot too close to the keeper. 4 people in that game got something wrong but we only focus on the keeper . . Well and Sanchez a bit.

Maybe we need to think about our choice of scapegoat?

Couldn't agree more. It wasn't John Brooks who dropped a cross you'd expect a county league keeper to catch or who missed a hat trick of chances that would have wrapped the game up. Rightly, when the board descends into a witch hunt against the players sane voices pipe up and it does tend to stop. It rarely, if ever, happens when referring mistakes are made.

Situations like Saturday are frustrating - I was venting myself in my own home - but we won't get better refs if this abuse culture continues. Talksport are the worst. Jamie O'Hara is the first to give a VAR ref both barrels but will then come out with the "You don't know what a player is going through" when he spoons the ball over the bar from 2 yards out.

 

[RowZ]

blame booze n coke....from the few hours before........society problem....."celebration" problem.........

 

[drew]

Give them bodycams then come down hard on any team that abuse them. Ban any player or official from all football for 3 months for first offence, a year for second and for life for the third. Thats all football so they couldn't go to the Albion nor watch their kids play etc etc.

And get refs at the top of the game to enforce the laws properly.

FA announces bodycam trial for grassroot referees

The wearing of bodycams by referees will be trialled in four adult grassroots football leagues in England, the Football Association announces.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[AlbionBro]

I feel much of this referee abuse comes from a pure lack of respect. Sure they will get stuff wrong, these guys are filling in to help matches go ahead and add an extra beer or two each month and a takeaway afterwards to their often rotund stomachs.
The blame has to come from pundits such as Lineker, Shearer, and Murphy wading in on every match of the day, to undermine all referee's statuses.

 

[Weststander]

Give them bodycams then come down hard on any team that abuse them. Ban any player or official from all football for 3 months for first offence, a year for second and for life for the third. Thats all football so they couldn't go to the Albion nor watch their kids play etc etc.

And get refs at the top of the game to enforce the laws properly.

Grass-roots referees in England will become the first football officials in the world to wear body cameras in an attempt to tackle a “crisis” of physical and verbal abuse.

Almost seven years after Telegraph Sport first revealed widespread support for the idea among officials, the Football Association have introduced trials in four adult grass-roots leagues, starting this weekend in Middlesbrough.

This followed a request last June to football’s lawmakers, the International Football Association Board (IFAB), following warnings since 2016 that many referees were operating in fear of physical violence. The situation has further spiralled this season when, despite an FA warning of tough action back in August, stories of abuse have been widespread.

The aim of the trial is to explore whether the use of body cameras improve behaviour and respect towards referees in the grass-roots game. The FA has partnered with Reveal Media, who produce the body cams, to help introduce the technology for selected grass-roots referees in four adult grass-roots leagues across Middlesbrough, Liverpool, Worcester and Essex.

Around 100 referees will wear the cameras over the next three months and, crucially, the footage can be accepted as evidence in a disciplinary hearing.

 

[drew]

I feel much of this referee abuse comes from a pure lack of respect. Sure they will get stuff wrong, these guys are filling in to help matches go ahead and add an extra beer or two each month and a takeaway afterwards to their often rotund stomachs.
The blame has to come from pundits such as Lineker, Shearer, and Murphy wading in on every match of the day, to undermine all referee's statuses.

Afraid I disagree. The problem is referees at the top level not enforcing the laws at their disposal. If they booked more player for the merest of dissent rather than let it go early in the game it would stop. It would also empower grassroots ref's to do the same. It's a bit like timewasting, if refs booked a player at the first sign of it then it would stop but they don't. They'll wait till the 88th minute or such like.

Not long ago the BBC interviewed several grassroots refs and the most experienced of them was critical of top level refs for not applying the laws of the game and that is what caused him more problems at his level.

 

[jcdenton08]

A very good friend of mine recently got his level 4, after reffing since aged 20 (now in his mid 30’s). He’s a Spurs fan but he’s alright

I asked him about this and he has been fortunate in that he’s had nothing worse than verbal abuse.

He says the key is honesty, and most of the trouble stems from a lack of dialogue with players on the pitch about decisions. “I gave what I saw from the position I was in” is pretty hard to argue with, rather than running away and ignoring angry players.

The sin bin has made a positive difference.