Gerrard

[virtual22]

Who is so much better than Gerrard that they deserve to be in the side in his place?

Anyone willing to clatter into Suarez in the first minute to give that knee a little tweak. I think part of the problem is the rest of the world play a different game now. When Sturridge was throat chopped he should have gone down like he'd been shot, rolled around, we should have had nine players harassing the ref, Joe Hart running the whole length of the pitch to get involved. It's what no one wants to see but the rest of the world are doing and they are winning games because of it. We see it every week in our "top league" because all the foreign players are there.

I bet Blatter was sitting back with a cigar, glass of champagne and the biggest grim on his face ever last night!

 

[Brighton Mod]

Poor old Stevie G, central to both Uraguay goals must be feeling sick this morning. Remember him scoring against Germany in 2001, 13 years ago. Is it possible to be that good for that long, or is there just a dearth of talent now?

 

[Pavilionaire]

Anyone willing to clatter into Suarez in the first minute to give that knee a little tweak. I think part of the problem is the rest of the world play a different game now. When Sturridge was throat chopped he should have gone down like he'd been shot, rolled around, we should have had nine players harassing the ref, Joe Hart running the whole length of the pitch to get involved. It's what no one wants to see but the rest of the world are doing and they are winning games because of it. We see it every week in our "top league" because all the foreign players are there.

I agree that histrionics may have resulted in a second yellow and transformed the game which we almost certainly wouldn't have lost and probably would have won. This would also have had the benefit of depriving Uruguay of their best defender against Italy in their final match.

But at the end of the day I'm glad we didn't cheat. I'd rather win fair and square than by foul means, sure it's nice to win but we invented the sport and the day we give in to the cheats is the day football dies. The sad thing is when it gets to the World Cup Final the English tend to support the team that has cheated the least out of the two of them. Brazil's card is already marked because of the Fred and Marcelo dives and Neymar's assault on Modric. Uruguay and Honduras have won no friends with their persistent foul play, so I think this factor is important to English fans.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

I agree that histrionics may have resulted in a second yellow and transformed the game which we almost certainly wouldn't have lost and probably would have won. This would also have had the benefit of depriving Uruguay of their best defender against Italy in their final match.

But at the end of the day I'm glad we didn't cheat. I'd rather win fair and square than by foul means, sure it's nice to win but we invented the sport and the day we give in to the cheats is the day football dies. The sad thing is when it gets to the World Cup Final the English tend to support the team that has cheated the least out of the two of them. Brazil's card is already marked because of the Fred and Marcelo dives and Neymar's assault on Modric. Uruguay and Honduras have won no friends with their persistent foul play, so I think this factor is important to English fans.

I admire you taking the moral high ground but the moment that Michael Owen ' dived ' against Argentina in 1998 ( to cancel out an earlier ' Argie dive ' ) was the moment that English football changed forever. Feelings were still running high with the South Americans and very few condemned Owen for his actions.
I abhor cheating in football and I don't like the use of the word ' gamesmanship ' to make it sound more professional but the authorities have long since turned a blind eye to it, so most of us feel pretty powerless.
Now referees, players and fans can't tell the difference between a dive in the penalty area and a legitimate tackle. The players have perfected the art of simulation and employ it to advantage.
Maradona is still lauded in Argentina for his ' clever ' hand of God but reviled over here. Its all a matter of perspective.

 

[Weststander]

In general, when very shortly Lampard and Gerrard join A.Cole as retirees, I think there's a mixed picture for England with some alarming inadequacies in future squads:

In centre-midfield (the defensive & winning the battle there, aspect), things look even worse than now:
Wilshire looked a brilliant prospect a couple of years back. The midfield dynamism of Gerrard (in his teens and 20's), but with the short-passing game potential of Xavi. He has fallen away alarmingly - falls over, gets bullied by bigger opponents who've worked out he's got a short fuse, and is chronically injury-prone.

Phil Jones another one - labelled a £17m steal by the astute Ferguson. Great energy, but injury and prone to critical errors.

We can pin all our hopes on Oxlade and Barkley but they are naturally progressive and risk-takers in their play.

At goalie, Hart is nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. Asleep twice last night when they tried the corner trick, and made himself as small as possible and committed to his left against Suarez.

In central defence, Jagielka especially and Cahill are far from world class.
Smalling - at £12m, we were told an incredible bit of business. He and Phil Jones were to dominate the England centre-back partnership for the next 10 to 15 years. Smalling now looks like Bambi on ice - an awful stiff right-back or a dozey centre-half.

When you look back - Ferdinand, Terry, Campbell and Keown, were better than any of the above.


We've improved on the attacking/creative part of our play and players, but at goalie, defence and centre-midfield - don't get your hopes up when the last of the players you despised retire.

 

[Diego Napier]

He can't be a scapegoat because a scapegoat is an individual who is blamed for the misgivings of others...Gerrard was, as anyone with 1/16th of a football brain could see.....dogshit

No, I think you'll find that a scapegoat is an individual who is blamed for the failures of others. The whole team failed; you, in your eloquent way, picked on one player who was no better or worse than any other.

Still, in one post you've managed to cover off all three reasons I identified.

 

[Weststander]

No, I think you'll find that a scapegoat is an individual who is blamed for the failures of others. The whole team failed; you, in your eloquent way, picked on one player who was no better or worse than any other.

Still, in one post you've managed to cover off all three reasons I identified.

Don't enter into a cerebral debate with The Lemming Stomper - he will destroy you with his wit and wisdom.

And yes, most the team played poorly, not just Gerrard. Uruguayan came out fired up, were at the races from the word go and have a world class forward.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I admire you taking the moral high ground but the moment that Michael Owen ' dived ' against Argentina in 1998 ( to cancel out an earlier ' Argie dive ' ) was the moment that English football changed forever. Feelings were still running high with the South Americans and very few condemned Owen for his actions.
I abhor cheating in football and I don't like the use of the word ' gamesmanship ' to make it sound more professional but the authorities have long since turned a blind eye to it, so most of us feel pretty powerless.
Now referees, players and fans can't tell the difference between a dive in the penalty area and a legitimate tackle. The players have perfected the art of simulation and employ it to advantage.
Maradona is still lauded in Argentina for his ' clever ' hand of God but reviled over here. Its all a matter of perspective.

I wouldn't say I was "taking the moral high ground" as that implies some sort of arrogance on my part. The fact is the game has rules and if the rules aren't adhered to the game changes. People bang on about passion, the beautiful game and love of the game but nobody loves the game more than the English because we are prepared to play it the way it is supposed to be played. The South Americans like to outwit and trick their opponents and the sad thing is they include the referee in this as well as the opposition.

As for your comment about Michael Owen's diving being the moment "that changed English football forever" you'd be correct if every English forward started diving thereafter. This is so utterly NOT the case and people feel so strongly about it that those that do choose to dive are reviled - see the case of Ashley Young.

If by changing the game you mean England stooping to the levels of Argentina then yes, Owen has confessed to going down easily in two matches vs. Argentina. It's wrong, there's no defence for it.

 

[HH Brighton]

He's only in the liverpool team because even Rogers wont dare drop him for fear of the scouse backlash.
His new defensive midfield role is just the least bad option for including him in the team. Hodgson following his lead is inexplicable.

Clueless post of the day award winner right here

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm pretty certain Gerrard will be playing his last game against whoever the other team in England's group is.

 

[The Lemming Stomper]

No, I think you'll find that a scapegoat is an individual who is blamed for the failures of others. The whole team failed; you, in your eloquent way, picked on one player who was no better or worse than any other.

Still, in one post you've managed to cover off all three reasons I identified.

Congratulations on being such a know-all....I can sleep easy now & have signed up for an English course for football fans on how to speak proper

 

[Bold Seagull]

And yes, most the team played poorly, not just Gerrard. Uruguayan came out fired up, were at the races from the word go and have a world class forward.

Despite most of the team playing poorly, Uruguay were there for the taking. All this they were fired up, world class forward etc. they were there to be beaten after the equaliser up until Gerrard flicked a long hopeful punt upfield backwards like a pub team player on a Sunday morning.

 

[Diego Napier]

Congratulations on being such a know-all....I can sleep easy now & have signed up for an English course for football fans on how to speak proper

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Despite most of the team playing poorly, Uruguay were there for the taking. All this they were fired up, world class forward etc. they were there to be beaten after the equaliser up until Gerrard flicked a long hopeful punt upfield backwards like a pub team player on a Sunday morning.

It was an inexcusable error for a player of that experience. You are right...they were rocking and we should have gone for the kill. Yes, the centre-halves could have done more but I bet no one was more surprised than them to see Gerrard gift Saurez the winner.

 

[Northstandite]

Clueless post of the day award winner right here

Seconded. Spotted a spiteful Chelski or Manure fan masquerading as a football and Albion fan on NSC.

 

[Northstandite]

Despite most of the team playing poorly, Uruguay were there for the taking. All this they were fired up, world class forward etc. they were there to be beaten after the equaliser up until Gerrard flicked a long hopeful punt upfield backwards like a pub team player on a Sunday morning.

Not the analysis of highly regarded football writers like Patrick Barclay in the cool light of day. They quite rightly said England had Uruguay on the ropes for a few minutes after our goal, then Uruguay drove us back fighting for a winner, they had the passion and knowhow to change up gears again and go for it. Unlike the hopeless England 11 which by then included all our subs who had no influence on the game at all.

You might also take note of Lee Dixon and co who know quite a bit about defending, who thought Cahill and Jagielka were awful for the second goal in their movement and not anticipating the ball breaking just in case, and Jagielka for the first goal.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Not the analysis of highly regarded football writers like Patrick Barclay in the cool light of day. They quite rightly said England had Uruguay on the ropes for a few minutes after our goal, then Uruguay drove us back fighting for a winner, they had the passion and knowhow to change up gears again and go for it. Unlike the hopeless England 11 which by then included all our subs who had no influence on the game at all.

You might also take note of Lee Dixon and co who know quite a bit about defending, who thought Cahill and Jagielka were awful for the second goal in their movement and not anticipating the ball breaking just in case, and Jagielka for the first goal.

Sorry, are we not allowed an opinion unless we write for the mainstream press? Why don't you say what YOU think, not what you think writers and ex-players think?

 

[The Modfather]

Shame he didn't retire early instead of Scholes

 

[The Legend that IS Lawro]

We'd be in the next round already if Shrek had converted his chances.

 

[Norman Potting]

Apologies if someone has already posted this but the following tweet from a Mr. G. Butters made me smile/

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p>Liverpool are looking good value for money for next season.

The link-up play between Suarez and Gerrard tonight was world class</p>— Guy Butters


...and it would probably seem even funnier if I knew how to embed tweets properly.