Fidel Castro dead.

[NooBHA]

I could never actually form an opinion of him because the information coming out about him always seemed to be so contrasting that I never actually knew what to believe and what information was truly reliable

 

[highflyer]

Marxism keeping the poor, poor. Let's hope democracy will now prevail.

That's right. Except of course places like Cuba and China have done far far better at lifting people out if poverty than many equivalent countries within the 'capitalist' economy. There were three similar Caribbean countries within the US imperial sphere in the late 50's. Dominican Republic, Haiti and Cuba. One had a revolution. I know which of those has done best for its poor.
Otherwise great comment.

 

[Buzzer]

That's right. Except of course places like Cuba and China have done far far better at lifting people out if poverty than many equivalent countries within the 'capitalist' economy. There were three similar Caribbean countries within the US imperial sphere in the late 50's. Dominican Republic, Haiti and Cuba. One had a revolution. I know which of those has done best for its poor.
Otherwise great comment.

Cherry picking basket case countries to prove a point. One reason Cuba has done so much better than it's immediate neighbours was huge Russian subsidies for decades. Let's see how socialism has benefited countries like Venezuela shall we?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

That's right. Except of course places like Cuba and China have done far far better at lifting people out if poverty than many equivalent countries within the 'capitalist' economy. There were three similar Caribbean countries within the US imperial sphere in the late 50's. Dominican Republic, Haiti and Cuba. One had a revolution. I know which of those has done best for its poor.
Otherwise great comment.

Is this the same China that under Mao saw between 20 and 43 million people starve to death between 1959-61?

That's one way to lower the amount of poor people.

 

[Danny-Boy]

His brother is still in charge, so it's still a dictatorship mixed in with nepotism.

I have friends who are married to Cuban ladies, so I get a lot of info about political matters.

Raul is supposed to be standing down soon and there are moderates waiting in the wings apparently. Life on the street in Havana is already catching up to the West with internet cafes etc. Not sure about Big Mucks and Kentucky Frogs though.

 

[Danny-Boy]

Is this the same China that under Mao saw between 20 and 43 million people starve to death between 1959-61?

That's one way to lower the amount of poor people.

Yes the "Great Leap Forward". Must have been over all those corpses...

 

[Buzzer]

So many apologists for brutal dictatorships. Gotta love left-wing myopia.

"I know thousands/millions died and many more imprisoned but life did get better for those who weren't persecuted! And anyway, they were socialist dictatorships so its not like they were nasty like those right wing ones.... "

 

[Danny-Boy]

That's right. Except of course places like Cuba and China have done far far better at lifting people out if poverty than many equivalent countries within the 'capitalist' economy. There were three similar Caribbean countries within the US imperial sphere in the late 50's. Dominican Republic, Haiti and Cuba. One had a revolution. I know which of those has done best for its poor.
Otherwise great comment.

Don't forget Grenada, a former British colony and Commonwealth member which the US invaded under Reagan, with Maggie's blessing, to stop a mini-Cuba. Wonder how they've made out since...

 

[highflyer]

Cherry picking basket case countries to prove a point. One reason Cuba has done so much better than it's immediate neighbours was huge Russian subsidies for decades. Let's see how socialism has benefited countries like Venezuela shall we?

It's obviously not 'cherry picking' to look at the most closely equivalent countries in the region for comparison. Haiti is a basket case. Dominican Republic not so much. Cuba has not received subsidies from Russia for decades and yet its standards of health and education have remained high. We also have no idea how it would have performed (including on political rights) without the US aggression. Which was entirely unjustified - initially being driven by cold war politics and more recently I would suspect by the fact that Florida is a swing state.

 

[Danny-Boy]

A lot of Russians still think Uncle Joe was the best thing since sliced bread (presumably those who had no dealings with the NKVD).

There is a lot of nostalgia too in the former Yugoslavia for Tito. People like men with cojones.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

Raul is supposed to be standing down soon and there are moderates waiting in the wings apparently.

Yeah alright, good luck with that one.

 

[Danny-Boy]

It's obviously not 'cherry picking' to look at the most closely equivalent countries in the region for comparison. Haiti is a basket case. Dominican Republic not so much. Cuba has not received subsidies from Russia for decades and yet its standards of health and education have remained high. We also have no idea how it would have performed (including on political rights) without the US aggression. Which was entirely unjustified - initially being driven by cold war politics and more recently I would suspect by the fact that Florida is a swing state.

Instead of the USSR and post-Soviet Russia Cuba was bailed out by Venezuala with cheap oil products, Cuba has no indigenous oil reserves. Then when they went tits-up that really hit the Cuban economy, reliant as it is on Sugar and Tobacco.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I have friends who are married to Cuban ladies, so I get a lot of info about political matters.

Raul is supposed to be standing down soon and there are moderates waiting in the wings apparently. Life on the street in Havana is already catching up to the West with internet cafes etc. Not sure about Big Mucks and Kentucky Frogs though.

They may even get free speech and a right to vote eventually.

 

[Buzzer]

It's obviously not 'cherry picking' to look at the most closely equivalent countries in the region for comparison. Haiti is a basket case. Dominican Republic not so much. Cuba has not received subsidies from Russia for decades and yet its standards of health and education have remained high. We also have no idea how it would have performed (including on political rights) without the US aggression. Which was entirely unjustified - initially being driven by cold war politics and more recently I would suspect by the fact that Florida is a swing state.

3 decades of Russian capital investment followed by Venezuelan oil money is a useful buffer though AND rather bizarrely the one thing the Batista government had already spent huge amounts on was education and health. Cuba was already miles better than your other two examples. Infant mortality was so much better, it was even half the rate that Spain suffered for instance.

And talking of which, the Cubans have routinely lied about the state of their health care. They claim an even lower infant mortality rate for example than under Batista yet late fetal deaths are 5 times higher than its neighbours. Funny that.

If only the free press in Cuba reported on this... Oh yes. There is no free press.

 

[Danny-Boy]

3 decades of Russian capital investment followed by Venezuelan oil money is a useful buffer though AND rather bizarrely the one thing the Batista government had already spent huge amounts on was education and health. Cuba was already miles better than your other two examples. Infant mortality was so much better, it was even half the rate that Spain suffered for instance.

And talking of which, the Cubans have routinely lied about the state of their health care. They claim an even lower infant mortality rate for example than under Batista yet late fetal deaths are 5 times higher than its neighbours. Funny that.

If only the free press in Cuba reported on this... Oh yes. There is no free press.

I seem to remember a programme I heard on Cuban history where Batista was actually labelled a political moderate compared to who had run Cuba in the 1940's. And he imprisoned Fidel for a time and then released him.

 

[jakarta]

All the Usual Suspects crawling out from under their stones I see...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38117068

 

[topbanana36]

All the Usual Suspects crawling out from under their stones I see...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38117068

and this piece of wants to run our country. Why doesn't he get on a plane and go and live in North Korea it would suit him down to the ground.

 

[mothy]

I'm no socialist, or communist.

But respect to Fidel. A big man who stood up for what he believed in & never faltered.

I went to Cuba under his rule & have much love for the Cuban people

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Involved with Kennedy and Khrushchev during the Cuban missile crisis, a crucial time in history, which luckily never ensued to anything.

Was you? Blimey that's some boast but credit to you for avoiding WW3, I am sure we are all very grateful and full credit for not mentioning it on NSC before.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'm no socialist, or communist.

But respect to Fidel. A big man who stood up for what he believed in & never faltered.

I went to Cuba under his rule & have much love for the Cuban people

And imprisoned/ killed people who disagreed with him .... respect

http://babalublog.com/fidel-castros-greatest-atrocities-and-crimes/