SeagullinExile
Well-known member
I'm sure the families of the 323 needlessly killed would appreciate this. Disrespectful in the extreme I'd say.
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Falkland Islands lie in Argentinian waters, UN commission rules
- Thread starter TomandJerry
- Start date
I'm sure the families of the 323 needlessly killed would appreciate this. Disrespectful in the extreme I'd say.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Facts and fiction at the United Nations by Argentina.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1dd46_RH414WjlkRlk2ZFpVV3M/view?pli=1
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Usual Anti Brit/UK mindset from a Jezza groupie take no notice. The self loathing left would hand back NI,Falklands,Gibraltar,ANother territory given half a chance despite the wishes of the people living there or the blood spilt retaining them.
I knew Rex Hunt. There were talks in the very early 80's about sovereignty between UK & Argentinian ministers. It wasn't just Ridley. Other countries' (note plural) politicians and diplomats acted as facilitators at different times. Obviously, no deal was concluded, but talks were held over at least an 18 month period.
pastafarian
Well-known member
In essence what you are saying then is that the Islanders can go
themselves, and can stick their wishes and referendum up their arse.daveinprague
New member
One of our objectives evacuating Da Nang at the end of the Vietnam war was bringing Rex Hunt out, who was the British Consul General in Saigon. We didnt find him, he was out playing golf apparently, which sounded fairly ludicrous at the time, never mind now. Surprised to hear his name again in 1982. Trouble just seems to follow that man.
Shropshire Seagull
Well-known member
That's as maybe, but what do the Spanish tell their kids about Gib?
alfredmizen
Banned
- Mar 11, 2015
- 6,342
More to the point what do they tell them about Ceuta and Melilla ?
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,426
Which is what I've read and was led to believe that was part of the official history now the documents have been released.
This country was actively trying to NOT continue with the status quo as now.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Bloody imperialists!
Diego Napier
Well-known member
- Mar 27, 2010
- 4,416
Ooh! What a vitriolic little post. Yes of course we need to hang on to our empire.
I wonder if the self loving left would do the same?
Attachments
My position is that there is no way the Falklands should be handed to Argentina for several reasons and I'd actually say a plebiscite of the handful of residents is one of the less convincing arguments because with so few inhabitants, it's actually fairly easy to gerrymander a result for any governing power. Better reasons as mentioned already on this thread, are that the islands are 300 miles off the coast of South America (unless we deserve a claim on Iceland), Argentina didn't even exist when the Falklands were first colonised, and finally Buzzer's comments on Argentina's "colonial power" whinging would seem to nullify their claims on the islands, seeing as they are relying on the say-so of the former Spanish empire.
However I will take issue with this:
More likely, I think we should just accept they have a different perspective rather than accusing them of telling lies. This is a country that would never have gone to war over these islands in any case if the military junta had't needed a war to create a diversion and prop itself up. Untrained kids of 17 years old lost their lives in a war they could never win. I just think we ought to respect that they will never see things the same way as we do.
However I will take issue with this:
As someone who seems to insist on evidence from others when some fairly outlandish accusations are made, perhaps you could direct us to some evidence that Argentina tells "lies" in school? I'd also be interested to know how these "lies" differ from what we teach our kids about certain wars we've fought.
More likely, I think we should just accept they have a different perspective rather than accusing them of telling lies. This is a country that would never have gone to war over these islands in any case if the military junta had't needed a war to create a diversion and prop itself up. Untrained kids of 17 years old lost their lives in a war they could never win. I just think we ought to respect that they will never see things the same way as we do.
From Wikipedia, "the Spanish position states that both Ceuta and Melilla are integral parts of Spain, and have been since the 16th century, whereas Gibraltar, being a British Overseas Territory, is not and never has been part of the United Kingdom."
Semantics to suit their agenda, IMO. Mind you I haven't been to Melilla but Ceuta is a shìthole, it's far worse than Gib (which itself is just a Spanish-speaking bloody hot Swindon with cheap fags). They're welcome to it.
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5mins-from-amex
New member
Ooh! What a vitriolic little post. Yes of course we need to hang on to our empire.
I wonder if the self loving left would do the same?
That post has nothing to do with the Falklands? since when have the Falkland islands wanted independence?
You tell me?
"When we are very young, we are told about them at school," 25-year-old Julia says. "We know that the islands are ours."
"Children are brainwashed," says 30-year-old Federico, "they are taught about the islands before they are old enough to understand."
"I was not brainwashed. I know that Las Malvinas are Argentine, for two reasons - historical and geographical."
Sorry, which historical reason is that? The islands have never belonged to Argentina - not that Argentinians will be taught that.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-21673504
If we're told lies, then they don't really differ, they're lies. What do you think our children are currently lied to about? I don't think all our wars our were just and I don't teach my kids that they were. The Opium Wars for example, weren't that long ago and were completely wrong.
People on all sides should be told the truth, otherwise people will want to fight forever more based on falsehoods.
Diego Napier
Well-known member
- Mar 27, 2010
- 4,416
But it has everything to do with political will. See post #72
Good grief, you're quoting from the BBC as proof that Argentinian kids are taught "lies" about British territory? 
And if that's not bad enough, your quotes don't even prove your point! "I was not brainwashed. I know that Las Malvinas are Argentine, for two reasons - historical and geographical." There is nothing wrong with that, per se. Geographically, the Falklands ARE closer than any other nation. Historically, the Spanish ceded power to Argentina. Just because our perspective is different, it doesn't make these claims "lies".
And if that's not bad enough, your quotes don't even prove your point! "I was not brainwashed. I know that Las Malvinas are Argentine, for two reasons - historical and geographical." There is nothing wrong with that, per se. Geographically, the Falklands ARE closer than any other nation. Historically, the Spanish ceded power to Argentina. Just because our perspective is different, it doesn't make these claims "lies".
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
It is not anti Brit/UK to be anti imperialist. Our foreign territories are a reminder of an aggressive invasion of much of the world. We are what we are because of our dominance of the seas, our trading of the resources of other nations. That isn't anti British, that is the history of Britain, you can accept your own history without it being self loathing, the good and the bad.
However you are right, should the inhabitants of any of our 14 foreign territories wish independence, or sovereignty under someone else, we'd let them determine that democratically. We didn't spill blood to retain the territories, we spilt blood to protect the rights of the inhabitants. I think that is an important distinction.