[Cricket] *** England v India *** 2nd Spicy Test at Lords 17th -21st SS2 11am

[Mellotron]

Slightly naively (as someone who doesn't follow cricket CLOSELY despite playing at a fairly high level as a nipper) don't we just need to step back and take perspective - the "golden generation" has gone and we're in a transitional phase, we're just not that good at the moment?

I don't understand the ANGER. That's the bit I don't get. We're going through a poor patch, we'll be good again in a few years time once these youngsters come of age, no?

 

[spring hall convert]

Slightly naively (as someone who doesn't follow cricket CLOSELY despite playing at a fairly high level as a nipper) don't we just need to step back and take perspective - the "golden generation" has gone and we're in a transitional phase, we're just not that good at the moment?

I don't understand the ANGER. That's the bit I don't get. We're going through a poor patch, we'll be good again in a few years time once these youngsters come of age, no?

I think the issue is that in the main the kids are doing alright. It's Cook, Bell, Prior that are really failing, whilst Anderson and Broad have been well below their best.

 

[Mellotron]

I think the issue is that in the main the kids are doing alright. It's Cook, Bell, Prior that are really failing, whilst Anderson and Broad have been well below their best.

Cook's clearly not a captain, so that needs dealing with to get him back to his best. Fair enough on the other 4. Still don't really get the ANGER though, as if they're villains who have intentionally sabotaged their own careers. I'm sure they're bloody miserable right now.

 

[Guinness Boy]

What's happened to Bresnan? Msassively relaible performer at this level.

It's his benefit year. Presumably got a lot of events and flesh pressing to do. Think he's been playing for Yorkshire though.

 

[Pavilionaire]

One thing about that test that says it all about where we're at is when Plunkett came in as nightwatchman to face 8 overs. With one ball of the penultimate over of the day left Prior pushed one and hared off for the single, only to be sent back by Plunkett. Lip-reading, you could tell he was saying "I'm the nightwatchman, I'm supposed to be facing this final over".

Thankfully, Prior heeded Plunkett's call, but it is typical of England's muddled thinking. For years we've been putting in a nightwatchman too early, then watching that guy at the non-strikers end with the recognised batman often thrown by the situation and losing their wicket.

 

[keaton]

Cook's clearly not a captain, so that needs dealing with to get him back to his best. Fair enough on the other 4. Still don't really get the ANGER though, as if they're villains who have intentionally sabotaged their own careers. I'm sure they're bloody miserable right now.

I'm not sure there's any anger directed at the players. If there's anger it's directed at the ECB as very few fans have any faith in them either telling the truth or making the correct decisions

 

[spring hall convert]

It's his benefit year. Presumably got a lot of events and flesh pressing to do. Think he's been playing for Yorkshire though.

Any idea what his pace is like? If he's back bowling around 85mph, he's got to be a shoe in for this side hasn't he. Experienced, reliable, canny operator.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think the issue is that in the main the kids are doing alright. It's Cook, Bell, Prior that are really failing, whilst Anderson and Broad have been well below their best.

It brings the group down though. I don't think Robson wants to bat with Cook. Root and Ballance look good but they must already be thinking it's them or no one. And there's no SWAGGER in the field. When the senior pros let you down there's no one to fill their boots adequately and promising young cricketers go down with them. That does actually make me quite angry. Maybe not puce like an exploding old Telegraph reading duffer in an egg and bacon tie but quite ticked off.

 

[Uncle Buck]

It's his benefit year. Presumably got a lot of events and flesh pressing to do. Think he's been playing for Yorkshire though.

He was rushed back in the winter when not fit.

The one that they need to re-visit is Finn, especially as Plunkett is not bowling that fast.

 

[Mellotron]

I'm not sure there's any anger directed at the players. If there's anger it's directed at the ECB as very few fans have any faith in them either telling the truth or making the correct decisions

Seems like a fair bit of anger at the players in this very here thread. Could be wrong though, maybe it's at the ECB.

 

[bhafc1972]

The coach was sacked 5 years ago for bring not good enough for the role and Paul Downton his best mate who had been out of cricket for over 20 years hatched a plan with him to come back . It's a joke the way Tory toffs run the game

 

[Pavilionaire]

The ECB had been doing a good job in terms of selection but over the last year or so things have gone seriously awry. Off the top of my head, their conduct has been questionable in all of the following:

1. Muddled thinking re the openers - Root > Compton > Carberry > Robson > ? for Cook
2. Selecting 3 "quicks" for The Ashes Down Under - none of whom were effective, or who have featured at all for England this summer.
3. Following on from 2, ruining a promising bowler in Finn.
4. Mismanaging the Trott situation.
5. Mismanaging the Swann situation.
6. Going 'all in' with Cook, thereby eliminating Pietersen from the side.
7. Getting rid of Flower too quickly.
8. Questionable choice of reappointing Moores.
9. Sticking with Cook as captain and Prior as wicketkeeper.
10. Desperation selection of Kerrigan as 12th man.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Slightly naively (as someone who doesn't follow cricket CLOSELY despite playing at a fairly high level as a nipper) don't we just need to step back and take perspective - the "golden generation" has gone and we're in a transitional phase, we're just not that good at the moment?

I don't understand the ANGER. That's the bit I don't get. We're going through a poor patch, we'll be good again in a few years time once these youngsters come of age, no?

It's because we've been we've been in a bad patch and getting worse for over 2 years. The real cracks started to appear away to Pakistan in Dubai at the start of 2012, we then got smashed by South Africa in the summer of 2012 (KP's texting series…) however we had an all too brief improvement when in Cook's first series as captain we won in India. This was followed by a more than average display in NZ, and frankly an Ashes we won last summer that we never should have in all honesty - Australia really were at their lowest point in 40 years, and yet they bounced back and we've been resolutely poor since then.

10 tests without a win and nothing changing, the same mistakes being made makes people angry. I'm angry. There is nothing happening to change it. We haven't lost 10 in a row since 1992/93.

 

[maltaseagull]

It's because we've been we've been in a bad patch and getting worse for over 2 years. The real cracks started to appear away to Pakistan in Dubai at the start of 2012, we then got smashed by South Africa in the summer of 2012 (KP's texting series…) however we had an all too brief improvement when in Cook's first series as captain we won in India. This was followed by a more than average display in NZ, and frankly an Ashes we won last summer that we never should have in all honesty - Australia really were at their lowest point in 40 years, and yet they bounced back and we've been resolutely poor since then.

10 tests without a win and nothing changing, the same mistakes being made makes people angry. I'm angry. There is nothing happening to change it. We haven't lost 10 in a row since 1992/93.

This pretty much says it all. I cannot see any hope of an England team bouncing back unless you count victories over Bangaladesh and Kenya which are not even guaranteed on current form.

 

[BensGrandad]

Going well till lunch then 5 wickets for 50 runs which is a poor gutless performance.

 

[Giraffe]

The whole body language of the captain and team is defeatist. He is in the last chance saloon and instead of coming out fighting he is on the back foot, and that attitude is spreading through the team now.

Will be amazed if we do it today, even though we have the ability, I just think the mindset is totally wrong.

Today has only supported what I said earlier. Weak captaincy breeds a weak team.

 

[Badger]

There's a book I would recommend them reading:

 

[Pavilionaire]

Rewind the clock: Australia win the Ashes 5-0 in 2006/07 with a squad including Langer, Hayden, Martyn, Warne, Gilchrist, McGrath. Once those players retired Australia lost the next 3 Ashes series and it took them 6 years to get back on track.

In the last 2 years we've lost Strauss, Trott, Pietersen, Swann - regular contributors with big hundreds, big wickets, the first two steady and calming, the latter two larger than life in word and deed. The selectors have been casting around for replacements, and seem to have abandoned the old policy of "identify and keep faith" that had served them so well for the previous decade.

It is difficult to know what to do, but they could do worse than make Broad the captain, replace Cook with Yorkshire's Lyth and play Bairstow instead of Prior. The two new players should find it easier to settle in with Balance and Root already cemented into the side and Bresnan to possibly come back in for Stokes.

 

[jakarta]

Rewind the clock: Australia win the Ashes 5-0 in 2006/07 with a squad including Langer, Hayden, Martyn, Warne, Gilchrist, McGrath. Once those players retired Australia lost the next 3 Ashes series and it took them 6 years to get back on track.

In the last 2 years we've lost Strauss, Trott, Pietersen, Swann - regular contributors with big hundreds, big wickets, the first two steady and calming, the latter two larger than life in word and deed. The selectors have been casting around for replacements, and seem to have abandoned the old policy of "identify and keep faith" that had served them so well for the previous decade.

It is difficult to know what to do, but they could do worse than make Broad the captain, replace Cook with Yorkshire's Lyth and play Bairstow instead of Prior. The two new players should find it easier to settle in with Balance and Root already cemented into the side and Bresnan to possibly come back in for Stokes.

So basically you want Yorkshire to represent England?

 

[Pavilionaire]

So basically you want Yorkshire to represent England?

What, as opposed to the South African side of yesteryear?!