[Albion] Dunk - straight red?

[Justice]

Do we know what he is supposed to have said? I've not read all 350 posts to find out so apologies if it's already been mentioned.

He said Mr Taylor I think you may have got the decision incorrect








You f***ing bald ****

 

[Uh_huh_him]

It is, of course, possible that a player telling a referee that he's a complete bellend straight to his face is actually a fairly rare occurence

He didn't say it to his face.

 

[Seagull58]

It did seem a little odd. I must say. There was part of me that wondered if there was an even up thing going on. It could be argued Pedros wasn't clear and obvious as he is inclined to wrap like a python on defenders.

The Dunk sending off is something I'm bewildered at the sackcloth and ash response to. Use foul and abusive language to a ref and see red. That's it.

Once in 15 years in the EPL? Doesn't appear to be very "that's it", does it? More like it's not Bruno Fernández or Virgil Van Dijk or Romero or Gallagher or Trippier or Ashley Young or any other player but it's Lewis Dunk and his manager doesn't like me, plus I've completely lost control so I'm going to brandish a red for once in my career when a player accurately describes me.

 

[Seagull58]

I've warned you privately, and now I'm warning you publicly. Post things about officials on here that you can't back up and you'll be banned.

I've absolutely no doubt that PGMOL will check the social media and message boards of the competing clubs. If they take objection to something that clearly cannot be proven in any way, you'll be gone before NSC is.

Capiche?

The evidence suggests the referees are incompetent and/or other factors are in play to explain their inconsistency. We see it in virtually every game. Nothing libellous there. Taylor dishing out the first red card for foul and abusive language in the prem for 12 years is an indication that competent consistency is not on the menu.

 

[Eeyore]

Once in 15 years in the EPL? Doesn't appear to be very "that's it", does it? More like it's not Bruno Fernández or Virgil Van Dijk or Romero or Gallagher or Trippier or Ashley Young or any other player but it's Lewis Dunk and his manager doesn't like me, plus I've completely lost control so I'm going to brandish a red for once in my career when a player accurately describes me.

Alternatively, if you look at the footage and apply basic lip reading it's clear why Taylor was having none of it.

Whilst I might challenge the competency of the Forest penalty decision, I find it hard how any defence is offered on Dunk's sending off. As I said, if it was a Forest player most of the consternation would be absent and folk would be saying 'quite right'.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The bookings against West Ham and Villa were for fouls according to the match day timelines on Sky Sports. The Luton timeline just says Mitoma is shown a yellow card, doesn’t say why.

I recall one of the fouls - he was dribbling towards the edge of the South stand penalty area - the ball got away from him a bit, and he lunged in after it, catching the defender as he cleared the ball.

The one that wasn't a foul, was for lashing the ball into the away crowd behind the goal, after the (offside?) whistle had gone.

 

[Seagull58]

Alternatively, if you look at the footage and apply basic lip reading it's clear why Taylor was having none of it.

Whilst I might challenge the competency of the Forest penalty decision, I find it hard how any defence is offered on Dunk's sending off. As I said, if it was a Forest player most of the consternation would be absent and folk would be saying 'quite right'.

Understood. Why has neither Taylor nor any other EPL ref applied the same punishment on any other occasion in the last 12 years? Was he uniquely offended by the word "bald"?

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

I recall one of the fouls - he was dribbling towards the edge of the South stand penalty area - the ball got away from him a bit, and he lunged in after it, catching the defender as he cleared the ball.

The one that wasn't a foul, was for lashing the ball into the away crowd behind the goal, after the (offside?) whistle had gone.

I remember the lunge challenge now you mention it. And the Luton one being for kicking the ball away would be right for early in the season when they were actually issuing bookings for that.

 

[beardy gull]

The VAR Review: Why Man United were awarded a penalty, and was Alisson really fouled?

The lowdown on Man United's VAR penalty against Everton, plus Manchester City's disallowed goal against Liverpool.

www.espn.com

”Mr VAR” aka Dale Johnson thinks VAR were wrong to intervene.
VAR review: Just because two players may have been held doesn't mean they are both offences. Earlier in the second half, Brighton's João Pedro was held back by Chris Wood and a penalty was awarded, so for this reason Nottingham Forest were adamant they should have a spot kick too for the holding of Hudson-Odoi.

Holding is an assessment of impact upon an opponent, and not just the act itself. Wood has his arm around the chest of Pedro, just as Marc Cucurella did on Erling Haaland for the penalty Taylor awarded to Manchester City at Chelseabefore the international break. It's not going to be overturned.
Would the VAR have advised a penalty for Hinshelwood's challenge if there hadn't been a similar one earlier in the game? Perhaps not. However, as we have discussed, the VAR's job isn't to provide consistency of decision-making by a referee, and there doesn't appear to be a clear act of holding by Hinshelwood.

The argument that if you give the first one you have to give the second only holds if they are identical incidents, and it would have been better had the VAR not intervened. If the independent panel comes to the same conclusion, it would be the fourth incorrect VAR decision to go against Brighton this season.

 

[dazzer6666]

Darren Bent just called Taylor 'pathetic' on the radio - 'happens every week'

 

[portslade seagull]

When I reffed many years ago I used to give one warning for swearing to each team and then yellowed any culprits. Spitting was my pet hate especially when aimed at opposing players and was a straight red. Problem was the younger players used to copy what they watched in televised matches on TV.

 

[Eeyore]

Understood. Why has neither Taylor nor any other EPL ref applied the same punishment on any other occasion in the last 12 years? Was he uniquely offended by the word "bald"?

It looks rules have been tightened.

The point is abusive language has to have zero tolerance where refs are concerned.

We've seen the problem at grassroots level. So the highest level has to set an example. If it doesn't, then there won't be any referees left.

 

[loz]

When I reffed many years ago I used to give one warning for swearing to each team and then yellowed any culprits. Spitting was my pet hate especially when aimed at opposing players and was a straight red. Problem was the younger players used to copy what they watched in televised matches on TV.

Also calling a ref or opposing player a cheat is a red card if I remember rightly from my refereeing days…although that might have changed from 35 years ago ?

 

[portslade seagull]

Calling the ref a cheat was a red. The offences in lower local league footie seemed to mirror what the youngsters watched on TV. I can't remember ever being surrounded by players effing and jeffing due to what they classed as a dodgy decision. The more respect professionals show to refs the more it would ripple down the pyramid

 

[Zeberdi]

The evidence suggests the referees are incompetent and/or other factors are in play to explain their inconsistency. We see it in virtually every game. Nothing libellous there. Taylor dishing out the first red card for foul and abusive language in the prem for 12 years is an indication that competent consistency is not on the menu.

Here’s my unprofessional take on it FWIW;

There are other factors beyond individual incompetency but that has IMO more to do with VAR itself than it being circumstantial evidence of corruption. At least that is where the inquiry should begin and continue until that aspect is dealt with before jumping to conclusions that are not proven. The evidence seems to suggest that since the introduction of VAR, the standard of refereeing has become more incompetent for a number of reasons including:

a/ Every action on the field is now under a microscope with numerous angles and playbacks - nothing is missed so more marginal decisions are adjudicated and players are getting away with very little now - before VAR, these were judged in live play much less forensically but with more inconsistency across the League and many ‘illegal acts ‘ by players were missed - now it is much easier to see refereeing mistakes when they are made in field by looking at photos and playbacks, which has added to the sense of incompetency and inconsistency in key big moments of the game - when errors have turned the game and retrospectively ruled to be wrong by PGMOL, it is even worse and hardly surprising necks are sought by irate team managers. Fans and Clubs don’t want hollow, retrospective apologies, they want the points they would have had if that error had never been made. The footballing week has become dominated by the re-adjudicating and re-adjudicating ad nauseam, of the decisions made at a weekend PL match all contributing to a climate of suspicion and hostility;


b/ VAR has had the effect of rendering Refs either impotent or just unwilling to make the big decisions at times, preferring rather to rely on VAR stepping in - problem is when the right time for VAR to step in, is being applied inconsistently, it exacerbates the frustration that fans and managers feel when refs don’t make any decision (or do but the wrong one) and play is being held up for inordinate lengths of time or late decisions are being made after play has resumed. Again, delays and long adjudication time by unseen officials, adding to the sense that the decision makers, on or off the field, don’t know what they are doing;


c/ An increasing reliance on VAR by refs has meant the game more and more is being refereed by remote officials who are‘t even close to the field - adjudication of matches has been delegated to a ‘behind the scenes’ team of officials that neither the players or the fans can see. The remoteness that VAR creates between fans and officials alone feeds the conspiracy that there is ‘more things at play’ than incompetency but that in itself is not a cause to say the system is corrupt.

I am not saying there isn’t any corruption in top flight football ( we know there is form for corruption in sport including how sponsorship match-fixing and the betting industry can rake in massive profits by using insider information and we had FIFA’s bribery scandal in World Cup bids etc) but there needs to be a pretty strong cause for making an accusation that refs in the PL are involved in bribery or match fixing. Unless evidence comes to light, that’s not going to be proven. In the meantime, making unsubstantiated claims of corruption of particular officiating bodies or individual match officials would very likely be deemed as libelous.

 

[Si Gull]

It looks rules have been tightened.

The point is abusive language has to have zero tolerance where refs are concerned.

We've seen the problem at grassroots level. So the highest level has to set an example. If it doesn't, then there won't be any referees left.

Absolutely right that there should be zero tolerance for abusive language but, if that's the case, it has to be applied consistently. The problem with Dunk's dismissal is that it looks like he was made an example of, and that's a poor reflection on the referee and might be seen as vindictive, in the light of RDZ'S recent comments about referees. A real mess.

 

[BluesRockDJ]

Everybody feels their own club is harder done by than any other. It's one of the side effects of football being a sport followed largely by manbabies who increasingly believe they have no agency in a rapidly diversifying and less easily understandable world (and that's not a criticism btw as I'm just as guilty of this myself).

That said, was the player in the Spurs-Villa game swearing in front of the ref or directly calling the ref a bad word? There's a big difference. A mate of mine briefly reffed Sussex Sunday League games a decade or so ago (and won ref of the year in his first season). He rarely booked and never sent anyone off for randomly effing and blinding about stuff (and effed and blinded back with them) but the first and only guy to say "you're a c**t, ref" to him got a straight red and (Sussex FA imposed) three month ban.

There's a big difference re whether swearing is directed at the situation (the air, the decision, the general sense of exasperation etc) or specifically at the person with the whistle. I'm not saying that's the key difference between McGinn and Dunk today (as I have seen neither incident even via video) but I rather suspect it might be tbh.

Sorry mate, but this was not a Sunday League match........................who else would he have been effing and blinding at ?

 

[BluesRockDJ]

Now I'm not an expert lip reader but I'm fairly sure I saw Youri Tielemans call Rob Jones "f***ing shit" yesterday to his face. I genuinely can't see the difference unless bald is now the offensive word we all should refrain from saying.

Inforces the fact that so many overeseas players soon pick up on English expletives !

 

[BluesRockDJ]

Maybe the F word is deemed slightly less offensive than the C word.

but I can remember rugby at school nearly 60 years ago (hated it) - any arguing with the referee and you’re sent off.
maybe football should do the same. And it is the inconsistency that jars!

Yawn..............................................................

 

[METALMICKY]

Now I'm not an expert lip reader but I'm fairly sure I saw Youri Tielemans call Rob Jones "f***ing shit" yesterday to his face. I genuinely can't see the difference unless bald is now the offensive word we all should refrain from saying.

You may jest but in this 'woke' world we now live in where everyone is reserving the right to be insulted about not much this might be the case. You now have to say ' follicly challenged '