Downsides to Poyet? - Sunderland fan here

[Machiavelli]

Hello all, as you may have gleened from my username I'm a Sunderland fan.

Throughout the transfer window I've been lurking on this forum, mainly due to our pursuit of Bridcutt and seeing if there was any info that you lot had that our fans didn't etc.

Anyway, I've noticed quite a large amount of negativity towards Poyet on here, which is quite surprising to an outsider looking in considering what he achieved here. As you may have guessed our fans are in love with him at the moment, for the first time in a long time it looks like we have a manager who actually has a clear plan and an inkling of what he is actually doing. We are firmly on the 'gus bus' right now

Basically, I'd just love to here some opinions from you lot on Poyet, and why a section of you are critical of him? We have had a few Brighton fans on our forum, but the majority of them were rather, erm, 'short fused' to put it kindly and didn't take well to our pursuit of Bridcutt (who by the way looks a cracking player).

I'd appreciate any feedback really, specifically any downsides to Gus, maybe what to expect in the future, and why his tenure here has become tainted?

Cheers.

When compared with your previous manager -- who is a fascist, and I think far more of an egoist than Poyet -- there are no downsides with Poyet. There's a lot of vitriol to Poyet on this board, because he's very ambitious and treated the club as a stepping-stone. I'm not too bothered by that, as I understand that players and managers have to have a certain amount of self-belief to do the job, and one of the things that entails is moving up a league, moving to a team higher in that league, and so on.
Some on here seem to think that he wasn't up for the second leg of the play-offs against our arch-rivals, and when this is combined with his open and regular touting for bigger and better jobs, his frequently stated desire to return to earlier clubs, and his performance during his suspension in front of the cameras, then you might begin to understand why many here aren't so keen on him.
I'm enjoying watching how he's getting on at Sunderland. He likes possession football, which is good, but could be a little one-paced in his style and one-dimensional in his approach, which is less good.
As for Bridcutt, there's a reason why he was player of the season for the last two years (up against Kuszack and Bridge last year). He was as good a defensive midfield player as there was in the Championship. He reads the game well, is excellent in the tackle, calm on the ball, and provides a link between defence and the midfield. Virtually all of his passes go to his teammates. This tends to cease to be the case when he attempts something more ambitious. For a little lad, he's also brilliant in the air. Again, I have affection for him, and am interested to see how he gets on with you lot.

 

[Max Paper]

Agree with the lack of plan B thing. He did good things for us but also mind bending bad things like spend all the clubs money in a decent centre forward and then playing him out of position, whoring himself out to Chelsea, spurs and 'oh I looveee Leeds and want to manage them' he also effectively threw our play off second leg against Palace with the strop to end all strops. Told the players he was gonna leave, messed their heads up on the biggest night for a generation and then refused to deal with the retained list. Good manager with potential if he keeps his ego in check, but for what he did that night, a wanker in my book.

 

[ferring seagull]

Most people loved Gus for the dramatic change in our playing style, ethos and mentality throughout the club. There is no doubt he was brilliant here, some great moments. He is tactically astute, gets the best from his players and creates a solid team ethos. This is already proven in what he has already done for Sunderland.

What people didn't like is that Gus started to be about Gus. It became about budgets and excuses until he finally made his now infamous 'has this club hit the ceiling' statement straight after the Play off defeat. It felt like he couldn't wait to leave rather than use us to wait for the right opportunity.

If he is successful with you, you will start to hear interviews and statements that make it clear that he has ambitions beyond your club. That is fine, that is par for the course, but you want to feel they are grateful for the stepping stone you have given them, not shove it back down your throat with a bitter after taste.

Sunderland, if nothing else read this post carefully because this is how it is !

Oh, and in my memory, he never got of his a--- (ie out of the dug out) even once during a play off semi whilst still ostensibly being committed to the club ?

Make of that what you will !

 

[Biscuit Barrel]

Every time you lose he will say "what do you expect, they have a bigger budget than us".

 

[Silverhatch]

Gus is showbiz. Gus was a top footballer as the Premiership bandwagon started to roll. He completely changed the footballing side of our club. He will be a great manager. He was given unbelievable backing by a local-lad-made-good chairman who despite spending £120m on Brighton has decided that he wants the club to be run to a budget. Gus, used to the Premier League bandwagon, didn't like this one bit and decided it was time to get out. This is where he ****ed up.

Instead of doing the honourable thing, resigning and walking away from our club with our best wishes - he decided to take on our chairman and, for the first time, ran into a football man who would not just roll over and die.

One day, I just hope that Gus might admit he could have handled his exit from BHAFC a lot better than he did. But I won't hold my breath. As others have said, if there are any glass ceilings at the SOL - you might want to get rid of them.

 

[Acker79]

Hello all, as you may have gleened from my username I'm a Sunderland fan.

Throughout the transfer window I've been lurking on this forum, mainly due to our pursuit of Bridcutt and seeing if there was any info that you lot had that our fans didn't etc.

Anyway, I've noticed quite a large amount of negativity towards Poyet on here, which is quite surprising to an outsider looking in considering what he achieved here. As you may have guessed our fans are in love with him at the moment, for the first time in a long time it looks like we have a manager who actually has a clear plan and an inkling of what he is actually doing. We are firmly on the 'gus bus' right now

Basically, I'd just love to here some opinions from you lot on Poyet, and why a section of you are critical of him? We have had a few Brighton fans on our forum, but the majority of them were rather, erm, 'short fused' to put it kindly and didn't take well to our pursuit of Bridcutt (who by the way looks a cracking player).

I'd appreciate any feedback really, specifically any downsides to Gus, maybe what to expect in the future, and why his tenure here has become tainted?

Cheers.

Gus's downsides depend on you as a fan.

I roll my eyes when loan players talk about how much they like it at their loan club and how they would definitely be open to a permanent move if things work out that way and so on, when deep down they know they're just there to get fit/experience/put in a shop window/off the wage bill for the remainder of his contract and that they would want too much money to drop down to that division. I much prefer the honesty.

From his first day with us Gus has made no secret of his ambition to manage at the highest level possible. Personally, I was fine with that. But a lot of fans didn't like it. Especially in later years when he had proven himself a capable manager and so the prospect of prem teams coming in for him was no longer some long shot, but a very realistic possibility.


Another big issue is that we lost in the play offs to our rivals Crystal Palace. We should have won the first game, but for a crossbar. The second was also a close game, a finger tip on to the crossbar, a goal line clearance stopped us taking the lead in a season where if we took the lead we did not lose. Because we lost to them it hurt some people more than it would have otherwise. This has led to a lot of people going off him.

After the game he was asked what his plans were and he said he'd need to know what sort of investment the club would make or if the club had hit its ceiling. I think hearing this with the hurt of such a loss still stinging probably exacerbated things for some fans.

Some fans started to complain he was always demanding more money (I don't remember that, I remember him highlighting how well the squad did despite our place in playing budget tables). Something they said was worse because his budget was bigger than any brighton manager in history (ignoring inflation of currency, inflation of player values, and that he was competing with other championship clubs, not historical brighton ones). This argument would lose weight when people would call for Harry Redknapp to replace him. I didn't have a concern over this because lots of managers talk about budget and how they'd like more.


I think there is also an element of "the club v Poyet, I won't question the club so Poyet must be bad" about things. There was a time when lots of posters on here, and even now certain posters, will jump on any praise Gus gets and treat it like a slap in the face of the board as if it's an either/or thing.


I would say you can't really deny his qualities on the field, the way he gets the best out of some players, the style of play he introduces, the success he brings, but because of the above, there are people who try (apparently, anyone could have done what he did, besides it was nothing to do with him and all about Bloom picking him and giving him money poyet was irrelevant, we never did anything but pass it between centre backs and the keeper etc).



So, if you're not upset that managers see your club as just a job that he will eventually leave for something bigger, and doesn't placate you with false claims of loyalty, if you can understand sometimes you will lose, that sometimes a manager goes as far as he can with a club and that club goes as far as it can with that manager, that sometimes a match will be a dud, and sometimes he might, like so many managers, talk about wanting more money, and should things end ugly that there are two sides to every story rather than blindly assuming he is at fault for everything and your club never ever ever makes mistakes or has any part to play in a working relationship breaking down, the only negative is that he will one day leave.

If you're the sort of fan that prefers false claims of loyalty, and thinks if you question your club you're disloyal etc. his personality will really irritate you.


EDITED TO ADD: In this post I mean to make no judgement on which way any one on here falls in those categories above. There are plenty of other threads where it has been discussed.

 

[Smile]

If you look at the big picture, we had a great 3 1/2 years on the Gus bus, it was rocky now and then but overall it was a great for the club and the fans. Many of the qualities he possesses wound up a small minority of our fans, these are the same qualities and faults found in the very best managers. He hates losing, he has an ego and its not hes fault when it goes wrong.

 

[Blue3]

Very good football manager has a style of play that is nice to watch and gets results one of the most successful managers we have ever had all that said I do think he has three major weaknesses one is he is self serving two can be petulant three no plan B

 

[daveinprague]

Ive a feeling 'Sunderland' is an NSC regular...not sure why...but..

 

[upthealbion1970]

Hello all, as you may have gleened from my username I'm a Sunderland fan.

Throughout the transfer window I've been lurking on this forum, mainly due to our pursuit of Bridcutt and seeing if there was any info that you lot had that our fans didn't etc.

Anyway, I've noticed quite a large amount of negativity towards Poyet on here, which is quite surprising to an outsider looking in considering what he achieved here. As you may have guessed our fans are in love with him at the moment, for the first time in a long time it looks like we have a manager who actually has a clear plan and an inkling of what he is actually doing. We are firmly on the 'gus bus' right now

Basically, I'd just love to here some opinions from you lot on Poyet, and why a section of you are critical of him? We have had a few Brighton fans on our forum, but the majority of them were rather, erm, 'short fused' to put it kindly and didn't take well to our pursuit of Bridcutt (who by the way looks a cracking player).

I'd appreciate any feedback really, specifically any downsides to Gus, maybe what to expect in the future, and why his tenure here has become tainted?

Cheers.

Gus will be great for you all the time the club is bigger than his ego, and until the other 19 teams in the prem work out that Gus has 1 plan and no plan b.

When you lose to your fiercest rivals in the biggest game in a generation the way we did, and after the game Gus's interview was all about him it grates to say the least.

Most of us also adored him for the majority of his time with us, we knew we were a stepping stone for him and that he was destined to manage in the prem - the general consensus was that he'd leave for one of "his" teams although with his temperament it was destined to end in tears

For me I will always be grateful to Tony Bloom for taking a punt on an untried manager, and obviously for the football Gus got us playing to get us into the championship for the opening of the Amex but the way Gus worked the media to his advantage makes me a little sad, a bit like when you split up with a woman who then tells you she's done the dirty with your mate.

Enjoy Gus while he's enjoying the challenge, whatever you do don't boo him or he will "go home and play golf"

 

[knocky1]

Ive a feeling 'Sunderland' is an NSC regular...not sure why...but..

Fully with you there. I set a trap and he didn't pick up on it.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

He's a petulant egoist.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Agree with the lack of plan B thing. He did good things for us but also mind bending bad things like spend all the clubs money in a decent centre forward and then playing him out of position, whoring himself out to Chelsea, spurs and 'oh I looveee Leeds and want to manage them' he also effectively threw our play off second leg against Palace with the strop to end all strops. Told the players he was gonna leave, messed their heads up on the biggest night for a generation and then refused to deal with the retained list. Good manager with potential if he keeps his ego in check, but for what he did that night, a wanker in my book.

That is a really good summary.

Heaven help Sunderland if ever they have a vital club changing match with Newcastle and Gus is more interested in Project Poyet, planning his next career move, and going into a major sulk.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

When will people understand the manager and indeed players have no loyalty to a club. The loyalty is the fans. Poyet did nothing outrageous, he just has ambition and that is to be applauded, that is why the guy is a WINNER and most likely always will be. It is not personal, it is just the way it is in football in the UK.

 

[John Bumlick]

We have plenty of dick head fans who have earned that sobriquet by holding an opinion which differs from mine.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Ive a feeling 'Sunderland' is an NSC regular...not sure why...but..

I suspect you are right, but he's asked a good question.

 

[Uncle Buck]

When will people understand the manager and indeed players have no loyalty to a club. The loyalty is the fans. Poyet did nothing outrageous, he just has ambition and that is to be applauded, that is why the guy is a WINNER and most likely always will be. It is not personal, it is just the way it is in football in the UK.

He had his contract terminated for gross misconduct and has not challenged this via legal avenues.

That he suggests that he might have done something wrong.

 

[lawros left foot]

Gus's downsides depend on you as a fan.

I roll my eyes when loan players talk about how much they like it at their loan club and how they would definitely be open to a permanent move if things work out that way and so on, when deep down they know they're just there to get fit/experience/put in a shop window/off the wage bill for the remainder of his contract and that they would want too much money to drop down to that division. I much prefer the honesty.

From his first day with us Gus has made no secret of his ambition to manage at the highest level possible. Personally, I was fine with that. But a lot of fans didn't like it. Especially in later years when he had proven himself a capable manager and so the prospect of prem teams coming in for him was no longer some long shot, but a very realistic possibility.


Another big issue is that we lost in the play offs to our rivals Crystal Palace. We should have won the first game, but for a crossbar. The second was also a close game, a finger tip on to the crossbar, a goal line clearance stopped us taking the lead in a season where if we took the lead we did not lose. Because we lost to them it hurt some people more than it would have otherwise. This has led to a lot of people going off him.

After the game he was asked what his plans were and he said he'd need to know what sort of investment the club would make or if the club had hit its ceiling. I think hearing this with the hurt of such a loss still stinging probably exacerbated things for some fans.

Some fans started to complain he was always demanding more money (I don't remember that, I remember him highlighting how well the squad did despite our place in playing budget tables). Something they said was worse because his budget was bigger than any brighton manager in history (ignoring inflation of currency, inflation of player values, and that he was competing with other championship clubs, not historical brighton ones). This argument would lose weight when people would call for Harry Redknapp to replace him. I didn't have a concern over this because lots of managers talk about budget and how they'd like more.


I think there is also an element of "the club v Poyet, I won't question the club so Poyet must be bad" about things. There was a time when lots of posters on here, and even now certain posters, will jump on any praise Gus gets and treat it like a slap in the face of the board as if it's an either/or thing.


I would say you can't really deny his qualities on the field, the way he gets the best out of some players, the style of play he introduces, the success he brings, but because of the above, there are people who try (apparently, anyone could have done what he did, besides it was nothing to do with him and all about Bloom picking him and giving him money poyet was irrelevant, we never did anything but pass it between centre backs and the keeper etc).



So, if you're not upset that managers see your club as just a job that he will eventually leave for something bigger, and doesn't placate you with false claims of loyalty, if you can understand sometimes you will lose, that sometimes a manager goes as far as he can with a club and that club goes as far as it can with that manager, that sometimes a match will be a dud, and sometimes he might, like so many managers, talk about wanting more money, and should things end ugly that there are two sides to every story rather than blindly assuming he is at fault for everything and your club never ever ever makes mistakes or has any part to play in a working relationship breaking down, the only negative is that he will one day leave.

If you're the sort of fan that prefers false claims of loyalty, and thinks if you question your club you're disloyal etc. his personality will really irritate you.

Absolutely this a thousand times

 

[lawros left foot]

He's a petulant egoist.

And so are some NSC posters

 

[Hamilton]

Gus was a great manager. We miss him. We are also glad to be rid of him.

He could put his foot in his mouth with consummate ease. Obviously, Brighton are not the biggest club in the world, but you don't need you manager reminding the fans, chairman and players of that.

Gus has ambitions. That's good, but you keep them private. He'll be banging on about managing Chelsea before long, or Spurs.

He could have been loved 100% at Brighton if he had acted with integrity, but he didn't.

Playing wise, he had us playing the great possession football that you'll see now. However, once teams work out how to play you then things can get a little tricky as he can be slow to change tactics (or even select a slightly different way of playing at the start of a game to outwit the opponent). You play the Gus way and that's the only way. That is pretty much his philosophy in everything.

All that said and done, that singleminded approach; that passion and ability to fire people up; that self belief, that's what most fans want from their managers, and that's why he is electric.

He was a great Albion manager. He'll be remembered as one when the aftertaste has gone.

He had