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[Politics] The 2024 US Election - Trump v Harris

Who will win the 2024 Presidential Election?

  • President Joe Biden - Democrat

    Votes: 3 0.8%
  • Donald Trump - Republican

    Votes: 142 39.1%
  • Vice President, Kamala Harris - Democrat

    Votes: 200 55.1%
  • Other Democratic candidate tbc

    Votes: 18 5.0%

  • Total voters
    363
  • This poll will close: .






Me Atome

Active member
Mar 10, 2024
108
A thought occurred to me while driving up today:-

Isn't a centre right 'socialist' government absolute perfection?

That is the governance we crave and occasionally have until they also become corrupted by power.
Well yes, it's what we think we want, and vote for, and get. A government that will please most of the people most of the time. I'm not sure that in itself defines a good government.
 


Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
Well yes, it's what we think we want, and vote for, and get. A government that will please most of the people most of the time. I'm not sure that in itself defines a good government.
No it's not what we vote for.
We only vote for it when the Conservative government has shit the bed so badly we all crave a reset but don't have the stones to go all in Socialist.
It's where we are at now, where we were post Major and where we will be in 25 years time.
 


peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
12,151
A thought occurred to me while driving up today:-

Isn't a centre right 'socialist' government absolute perfection?

That is the governance we crave and occasionally have until they also become corrupted by power.
Fiscally conservative, socially liberal with social justice at its centre. A lot of the Nordic countries have a good balance.

Denmark is a prime example, free market, capitalist welfare state.

And it doesn't necessarily mean if has to be high tax ideologically. Just what pragmatically maximises tax take for public services whilst balancing against business growth and creation. Ireland is low tax and runs a budget surplus.

 


Crawley Dingo

Political thread tourist.
Mar 31, 2022
1,018
I have no intention of wasting my time browsing his posting history and don’t particularly care where he posts thanks, I was just suggesting he follow his own desire to post on here less and focus on the football threads
I blocked Badfish as he is nothing more than a left wing attack dog and he is still following me around with his smear campaign and encouraging others with his toxic output, i.e. attacks by proxy. Maybe you should check his posting history? This also looks like a harassment campaign @Bozza

Enjoy your echo chamber.
 




Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex

Man changes name to Literally Anybody Else and announces US presidential run​



1712002028836.png
 


Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,616
I blocked Badfish as he is nothing more than a left wing attack dog and he is still following me around with his smear campaign and encouraging others with his toxic output, i.e. attacks by proxy. Maybe you should check his posting history? This also looks like a harassment campaign @Bozza

Enjoy your echo chamber.

Why are you still talking to me? :lol:
I think its best if we avoid each other in this thread.

Seriously, as for ‘attacking by proxy’? I don’t get influenced by anyone else about how I feel about other people, neither online nor irl. I have no desire to ‘check @Badfish’s posting history’, than I have of yours. I make up my own mind based in my own intereactions. My issues with you that I expressed last week were because you on many occasions have been really rude and frankly insulting at times to me directly and your response last week to a carefully thought out reply I had given you to a question you had asked me was the last straw.

However, you do have a right to express an political opinion, the last thing I would want on any political thread (or any other threads) are one-sided debates and I certainly don’t support any form of bullying, trolling or mocking people for their political opinions (provided they are reasonably held and not rooted in the hatred of others).

@Lasvegas also gets a pile on too at times but he manages to engage in a way that is also civil and friendly.

Perhaps a good start would be telling us why you are so vested in a Trump presidency (to the extent that you are) when you are not living in the US or are American - or are you?
 
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nwgull

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2003
14,500
Manchester
No it's not what we vote for.
We only vote for it when the Conservative government has shit the bed so badly we all crave a reset but don't have the stones to go all in Socialist.
It's where we are at now, where we were post Major and where we will be in 25 years time.
We are miles further up shit creak now than we were in May 1997 (two days before Hereford).

Back on topic though, early signs of tide turning? BetFair no longer have Trump/Republicans odds-on to win.
 






nwgull

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2003
14,500
Manchester
This is a fun game. If you click on the link and keep pressing refresh you can watch the shares in Truth Social (DJT) plummet...

Brilliant. Those shares have about as much underlying value as an NFT. The funny thing is that the price will have been inflated by Trump fans, and Trump fans only.
 


Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,616
\Americans today are most likely to define socialism as :
- connoting equality for everyone,
- the provision of benefits and social services,
- people being social and getting along with one another.

I love the fact that these are what Amercians think socialism is yet they also see it as a terrible terrible thing.

After careful consideration i am totally against equality, provisions of benefits and services and people getting along with each other. Trump is much better!!.

How the f*** has such a great nation got here?

Of course this part might be the best answer to my question.

"About a quarter of Americans were not able to give an answer."
The piece I posted over page shows that Democrats and Republicans interpret ‘socialism very differently - that was partly my point. Not all Americans do see ‘socialism’ as a terrible thing - clearly things like Obamacare and DACA are about equality and provision of services..

Dems see ‘socialism’ in a more positive light because they interpret it as ‘benefits and provision of services’, Republicans have a negative view of ‘socialism’, tending to define it as government control of the means of production (nationalised industry) and control of the economy (cf to laissez faire).

The best on the table I posted was that 6% of Dems and 5% of Reps think ‘socialism is talking to people, being social and getting on with people’ - well at least a small minority of Reps and Dems almost agree on something, even if it is the most absurd interpretation of ‘socialism’ you’ve ever heard of 😂
 




BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,045
Why are you still talking to me? :lol:


Seriously, as for ‘attacking by proxy’? I don’t get influenced by anyone else about how I feel about other people, neither online nor irl. I have no desire to ‘check @Badfish’s posting history’, than I have of yours. I make up my own mind based in my own intereactions. My issues with you that I expressed last week were because you on many occasions have been really rude and frankly insulting at times to me directly and your response last week to a carefully thought out reply I had given you to a question you had asked me was the last straw.

However, you do have a right to express an political opinion, the last thing I would want on any political thread (or any other threads) are one-sided debates and I certainly don’t support any form of bullying, trolling or mocking people for their political opinions (provided they are reasonably held and not rooted in the hatred of others).

@Lasvegas also gets a pile on too at times but he manages to engage in a way that is also civil and friendly.

Perhaps a good start would be telling us why you are so vested in a Trump presidency (to the extent that you are) when you are not living in the US or are American - or are you?

I think the 'pile on' is more to do with numbers, it's only Las Vegan and CD that are trump supporters so they get lots of replies. As you say Las Vegan is gracious and intelligent with his replies so we are enjoying engaging with him. (even 'left wing attack dogs' like me 😂).
 


BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,045
The piece I posted over page shows that Democrats and Republicans interpret ‘socialism very differently - that was partly my point. Not all Americans do see ‘socialism’ as a terrible thing - clearly things like Obamacare and DACA are about equality and provision of services..

Dems see ‘socialism’ in a more positive light because they interpret it as ‘benefits and provision of services’, Republicans have a negative view of ‘socialism’, tending to define it as government control of the means of production (nationalised industry) and control of the economy (cf to laissez faire).

The best on the table I posted was that 6% of Dems and 5% of Reps think ‘socialism is talking to people, being social and getting on with people’ - well at least a small minority of Reps and Dems almost agree on something, even if it is the most absurd interpretation of ‘socialism’ you’ve ever heard of 😂

My impression is that America and Americans see socialism negatively., possibly a hangover from McCarthyism and too close to being a commie bastard.

Obama care kind of backs up my thinking. Any kind of universal healthcare took years to implement, it was hard to implement and as soon as Obama left office the next guy started to dismantle it. It doesn't show that they particularly embraced it.

As you say though it depends on the definition being used.
 






Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
Perhaps a good start would be telling us why you are so vested in a Trump presidency (to the extent that you are) when you are not living in the US or are American
Dear lord, the poster in question is only invested in one thing - getting under the skin of other posters.
Tbh they are doing such a phenomenal job it's hard not to be impressed.

Why is this so difficult to understand?
 




Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
But why? For what purpose?
Shits and giggles.

Laughing their heads off as another 3 page essay is directed at them, which they have no intention of reading.
Just wait a couple of days then see how long it takes to bait another one.
 


chickens

Have you considered masterly inactivity?
NSC Patron
Oct 12, 2022
2,631
I don’t believe anyone is running Trump, other than Trump.

You aren’t following the money. He’s the monkey, who’s the organ grinder?

If you honestly believe that the democrats are a center-right party then it’s you who is the naive one.

I’m assured by @Machiavelli that Biden’s incarnation have drifted as far to the left as to suggest some pragmatic centrist policies. However, historically, they’re a centre-right party by international standards.

I agree with you that republicans are all talk.
So why vote for them?

You are obviously a socialist.
This tells me you don’t know what socialism means without you telling me you don’t know what socialism means.

I can promise you that the USA, democrats, are flirting with socialism.

Actually, I think you’ll find that the Democrats in the US are striking out for the centre ground. I think you’ve already been asked this question, but can you tell me how the US Democrats are halting private ownership of business and enforcing state ownership on US business owners? Thought not. Because they aren’t.

Regulated capitalism does not equal socialism.
 




Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,616
But why? For what purpose?
It wouldn’t bother me at all if he was polite and friendly tbh. I would rather anyway CD post his Trump related posts, weird and misguided as they are, than some of the contributions that have been made to the thread. He is not the only one trolling this thread. There’s been plenty of people baiting him and enjoying their own little galleried performance.

Probably best we just engage with each other how we want to and use the ignore button if we don’t want to see other people’s posts.
 
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Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,616
Dear lord, the poster in question is only invested in one thing - getting under the skin of other posters.
Tbh they are doing such a phenomenal job it's hard not to be impressed.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Shits and giggles.

Laughing their heads off as another 3 page essay is directed at them, which they have no intention of reading.
Just wait a couple of days then see how long it takes to bait another one.
I suggest you just put CD on ignore because he is clearly bothering you as is anybody who replies to him 👍

Or just ignore the whole thread 🤷‍♂️
 


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