Does this sound right?

[Double Hard Bastard]

BBC SPORT | Football | Euro 2008 | Dutch goal correct says ref chief

I don't see how the player can be active when he is off the pitch!

 

[Seagull over NZ]

I guess otherwise you would be opening up a can of worms. Players who realise they are playing someone offside could just step off the pitch making an attacker onside. Would be difficult to tell between intentional and not. WOuld not surprise me if Vn Horseface knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[steward 433]

BBC SPORT | Football | Euro 2008 | Dutch goal correct says ref chief

I don't see how the player can be active when he is off the pitch!

Because you need permission to leave the field

Just had a three hour debate about this on talksport

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Because you need permission to leave the field

Just had a three hour debate about this on talksport

Did those players (Robbie Keane, George Parris etc.) that stood off the pitch and then returned to the field of play to score, seek permission?

Following the rules, it would appear that Holland are only guilty of unsporting behaviour.

 

[sten_super]

In a word, yes. Just been discussing this in the match thread. If it's in the rules, that's it. Case closed.

In fairness seeing the replay on the bbc sport website just makes Panucci look like a bit of a fool. Yes he collides with his goalkeeper, but it's not that heavy a contact, and he just lies there holding his face; what did he expect to happen?

Edit: to respond to BoF...

I think unsporting behaviour is a bit harsh. I'm not sure Van Nistelrooy knew what he was doing, it looked like he was attempting to stay onside (in relation to the players on the pitch).

 

[steward 433]

Did those players (Robbie Keane, George Parris etc.) that stood off the pitch and then returned to the field of play to score, seek permission?

Following the rules, it would appear that Holland are only guilty of unsporting behaviour.

No but that was apparently before the rules were changed

 

[Easy 10]

In essence then, until the ref has actually confirmed to the bench that the trainer can come and treat the player, that player is still deemed active even when off the pitch.

Coo. Learn something new every day.

 

[Munkfish]

I guess otherwise you would be opening up a can of worms. Players who realise they are playing someone offside could just step off the pitch making an attacker onside. Would be difficult to tell between intentional and not. WOuld not surprise me if Vn Horseface knew exactly what he was doing.

in that case you would be booked for leaving the field of play without permission!

 

[Munkfish]

In essence then, until the ref has actually confirmed to the bench that the trainer can come and treat the player, that player is still deemed active even when off the pitch.

Coo. Learn something new every day.

It seems slightly odd, i wonder how many goals have not been given because of this!

 

[The Large One]

I guess otherwise you would be opening up a can of worms. Players who realise they are playing someone offside could just step off the pitch making an attacker onside. Would be difficult to tell between intentional and not. WOuld not surprise me if Vn Horseface knew exactly what he was doing.

Doubt it. He was genuinely waiting for the flag that never came.

Did those players (Robbie Keane, George Parris etc.) that stood off the pitch and then returned to the field of play to score, seek permission?

In Parris' case, his momentum in following up Denny Mundee's shot that took him off the pitch. Admittedly, he took his time to come back on.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This had not occurred to me but it makes perfect sense. There are numerous cases during a game when players leave the pitch in the cut and thrust of a game...and do not seek permisison to come back on.

 

[SurreySeagulls]

Natural momentum is key here. The player did not deliberately leave the field of play. Very much like a player who hurdles a challenge on the tough line and runs/jumps out of play but then returns onto the field of play to continue his attack would not have been deamed to leave the field of play and thus can continue. Otherwise you would caution the player for leaveing the field of play with out permission then have to caution the player a 2nd time for entering the field of play without permission. Then a red card would follow.

In this case the Italian defender was deemed active even though off the field of play and counted as one of the 2nd last defenders on the field of play, hence the goal stood. So technically a good call although I doubt IMHO that the lino called the decision as quoted and got it 'wrong' but was saved by the law book.

Thoughts?

 

[Munkfish]

Natural momentum is key here. The player did not deliberately leave the field of play. Very much like a player who hurdles a challenge on the tough line and runs/jumps out of play but then returns onto the field of play to continue his attack would not have been deamed to leave the field of play and thus can continue. Otherwise you would caution the player for leaveing the field of play with out permission then have to caution the player a 2nd time for entering the field of play without permission. Then a red card would follow.

In this case the Italian defender was deemed active even though off the field of play and counted as one of the 2nd last defenders on the field of play, hence the goal stood. So technically a good call although I doubt IMHO that the lino called the decision as quoted and got it 'wrong' but was saved by the law book.

Thoughts?

yes

No i think thats it pretty much, like you said the lino got lucky, but still wonder how many times this has happend in the past and not been picked up on when a goal has not been given!

 

[Jello]

Because you need permission to leave the field

Just had a three hour debate about this on talksport

It made we wonder how many pro's know the rules as Alan Brazil was adamant it was offside no matter what anyone would say.
It's a rule I've picked up just by watching the albion and TV. Maybe he should lay off the champers when he goes to games.

I remember a pal went off the pitch to change his boots without asking permission only to get booked for coming back on without permission. The ref explained that he had an assessor there so had to book him.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Keep up gents.. we did this all last night on the other thread......

 

[Easy 10]

In this case the Italian defender was deemed active even though off the field of play and counted as one of the 2nd last defenders on the field of play, hence the goal stood.

This is where it seems a bit ambiguous.
I always thought the offside rule stated that "there must be two or more defenders between the forward and the goal-line when the ball is played forward for him to be onside". Well if one of those two defenders is laying off the pitch BEHIND the goal-line, then he cannot be BETWEEN the forward and the goal-line, can he.

 

[SurreySeagulls]

he is counted as being on the goal line irrespective of being behind the line

 

[Easy 10]

Well THAT makes sense.















Not.

 

[Storer68]

Good to see that its not just women who don't understand the offside rule.....

For clarification
.

In 2005 The International Football Association Board agreed a new Decision in Law 11 that being 'nearer to his opponent's goal line' meant that "any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent. The arms are not included in this definition." [1] This is taken to mean that any part of the attacking player named in this Decision 2 has to be past the part of the second last defender closest to his goal line (excluding the arms) and past the part of the ball closest to the defenders' goal line.

In general, what this means is that either the attacking team should ensure the opposing team has at least two players (of which the opposition's goalkeeper is included) in front of the furthest forward player of the attacking team, or all players of the attacking team should be behind the ball such that it remains closer to the goal line than any of the player of the attacking team. If the goalkeeper is ahead of the play, then the forward will have to be in line with or behind two defenders (considering they are not in their own half).

Additionally Article 11.4.1 of the referring code states "an opposing player cannot be offside when one of the last two defenders has left the field of play"(

Determining whether a player is in "active play" can be complex. FIFA issued new guidelines for interpreting the offside law in 2003 and these were incorporated in law 11 in July 2005. The new wording seeks to more precisely define the three cases as follows:

Interfering with play means touching the ball passed or touched by a teammate.
Interfering with an opponent means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or movements or making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent.
Gaining an advantage by being in an offside position includes playing a ball that rebounds to the player off a post or crossbar or playing a ball that rebounds to the player off an opponent having been in an offside position.
In practice, a player in an offside position may be penalised before playing or touching the ball if, in the opinion of the referee, no other team-mate in an onside position has the opportunity to play the ball.


Offside sanction
The sanction for an offside offence is an indirect free kick to the opposing team, at the spot where the offence occurred. Most referees use their discretion and let play go on if the "offended" team already has the advantage or ball, in order not to slow down play with redundant free kicks that achieve the same purpose of giving the advantage or ball back to the "offended" team. This discretion should not be confused with the advantage clause, which can only be applied to Law 12. In essence, the referee who doesn't whistle offside must be judging that one of the elements of offside was not present

 

[Easy 10]

Additionally Article 11.4.1 of the referring code states "an opposing player cannot be offside when one of the last two defenders has left the field of play"(

In which case then, as soon as an opposing player is off the pitch during a passage of play (for whatever reason), the first thing the forward should do is goal-hang right next to the keeper IMMEDIATELY in the hope of receiving the ball. If the game is carrying on, as long as the ref hasn't called the physio over to attend whoever has left the pitch, then you only need ONE defender (ie the keeper) between the forward and the goal-line to remain onside.

The opposing player doesn't even have to be behind the goal-line, it could be anywhere.

I want to see Adams drilling this tactic into our players straight away.