Do you eat hallal food?

[Triggaaar]

The abbatoir pays for a priest to pray at the beginning of the day and then has to employ muslims to carry out the slaughter. Commercially it makes sense for them to kill all the animals like this and then they have a bigger market to sell to, labelling each as Halal or not as required.

It makes commercial sense to treat all the animals the same, but I'm not sure it's a rule. If they don't bless some of the animals, that doesn't suddenly mean that none of the animals are halal.

ha, but you cant make that choice as its not communicated. maybe it should be. the issue of stunning is a bit of a modern development, and to me immaterial in the bigger picture. some non-Halal meat wont be stunned and some Halal meat will be stunned prior to dispatch

They do communicate it. Tesco and Sainsbury's say that all of their own brand meat is stunned before slaughter.

like so much with religious guidance there's opinions on whether it applies or not (the strict rule as i recall is that the animal must not already be dead. there is a sensible anthropological reason for this, dead meat is likely to be off.)

That's the reason why many who supply halal meat don't stun the animal first, and it's completely daft. If you stun the animal, and then slaughter it, it's not going to have gone off is it. They've also proved that not only are stunned animals not dead, but they can recover if not slaughtered. They've also proved that slaughter without stunning causes more pain, which is against the principle of halal food.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I have looked into it. Research has been done at university's (inc Bristol I think) about how much pain an animal is in when they are stunned and slaughtered, vs when they are not stunned, and the results show they are in less pain when they are stunned first.

I don't fancy watching it right now, and films of poorly treated animals wouldn't be proof either way.

As long as you're not a vegetarian, we'll have no problem there.

I could become a vegan, but I'd absolutely hate that (I like animal products too much). Next up, I could devote part of my life to fighting for animal welfare - I guess I don't feel strongly enough about it to do that. Next up, I can make some choices that I think are better for animal welfare, like promoting the method of stunning animals before they are slaughtered - I'm doing that. If you can show me evidence that stunning animals is worse for them, I may have to change my view.

Ok we I fear we are getting into that circular argument, so I shall leave the discussion with this. It seems that you are genuinely interested in the welfare of the animals you consume, however sadly for the animals conventional farming provides no better end for them. I shan't post the direct video link, but you are free to visit animal aid.org.uk and take a look at their campaign pages for Slaughter and the mandatory introduction of CCTV into slaughter houses to ensure standards are met, it's not pleasant viewing and the "stunning" is every bit as distressing as the halal methods.

As I say it's up to you to look if you want, you won't have me continually telling at you to do so. All I would say is get yourself some additional information to make a more informed decision if that's what you want to do.

 

[GT49er]

Many meat suppliers do not want to limit their market so will slaughter it all Halal and sell it to whoever.

Yes, this was what I thought too - pretty much all the meat in supermarkets is halal, isn't it? Can I get non-halal if I want? - if so, where and how?

 

[Triggaaar]

Yes, this was what I thought too - pretty much all the meat in supermarkets is halal, isn't it?

No. Obviously not all slaughter houses have Muslims blessing their animals etc.

Can I get non-halal if I want? - if so, where and how?

The problem is, you can't often be sure it's not halal. As above, if you get lamb from New Zealand, it probably is halal, as they sell so much meat to the middle east. I'm sure there are some countries that wouldn't produce halal meat, so you try and source your meat from there. I'm not sure why you'd want to though?

 

[The Spanish]

There are large minorities in Britain who are not allowed to eat halal meat, just to muddy the waters further before people assume that its just angry white people using it as an excuse to dig people out.

 

[Albion in the north]

Yes, this was what I thought too - pretty much all the meat in supermarkets is halal, isn't it? Can I get non-halal if I want? - if so, where and how?

I would say that most imported meat is Halal. Most chicken is Halal. Buy from a farm shop or a market. At least they should be able to tell you its provenance.

 

[GT49er]

I'm sure there are some countries that wouldn't produce halal meat, so you try and source your meat from there. I'm not sure why you'd want to though?

Simply because I object to the cruelty involved in halal killing.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes, this was what I thought too - pretty much all the meat in supermarkets is halal, isn't it? Can I get non-halal if I want? - if so, where and how?

i'd try a kosher deli. only certified ones of course.

if its the method of killing that bothers you, give up because you just dont know how the slaughter was implemented. as we've seen in the above discussion, there is no cruelty inherent in Halal, just local abattoir practices differ from what one expects. farmer market meat might not be stunned for example if they've slaughtered on the farm.

 

[Creaky]

I would say that most imported meat is Halal. Most chicken is Halal. Buy from a farm shop or a market. At least they should be able to tell you its provenance.

Just over 10% of poultry is killed by a Halal method, nearly 90% of which are stunned leaving around 1% of all poultry that is slaughtered without being stunned first.

Denmark have banned the slaughter of all animals without stunning and moves by the EU may make stunning compulsory for all slaughtered animals.

 

[pb21]

I won't get halal meat because of animal welfare, so the students can eat out - it's win / win.

You'd be wrong then. The only reason I won't buy halal meat is because I want animals to be stunned before they are slaughtered. It's not against halal rules for them to be stunned, but if you buy meat labelled as halal then it probably hasn't been stunned, whereas all Tesco and Sainsbury's meat that isn't labelled as halal has been stunned.

See above.

If you won't eat halal meat because of animal welfare issues don't eat any meat because of animal welfare issues. There is much more to meat on your plate than what happens, or not, in an abattoir.

You are conveniently ignoring the issue and only paying lip service otherwise.

 

[symyjym]

It’s the mass production lines that are the problem with regard to stress and trauma. They certainly know that something isn’t right in the queue ahead of them when they listen to their fellow animals in distress.

There are some workers in abattoirs, I don’t know to what degree, who mistreat the animals before they are stunned, and maybe the stunning process is just there to make us feel better rather than the animal.

A mandatory introduction of CCTV in abattoirs is probably a good idea, Halal, Kosha or not.

Probably the most humane and respectful killing of an animal I have seen was on Bear Grylls The Island with the women’s team killing a pig.

From; 44:12

https://youtu.be/hGaQdVWzWA8

 

[Triggaaar]

Yes, this was what I thought too - pretty much all the meat in supermarkets is halal, isn't it? Can I get non-halal if I want? - if so, where and how?

Simply because I object to the cruelty involved in halal killing.

But how is it cruel if the animals have been stunned first? Just check your preferred supermarket ensures all their own brand meat is from animals stunned before slaughter.

If you won't eat halal meat because of animal welfare issues don't eat any meat because of animal welfare issues. There is much more to meat on your plate than what happens, or not, in an abattoir.

You are conveniently ignoring the issue and only paying lip service otherwise.

What are you suggesting I do, become a vegan? Since that's not something I'm prepared to do, are you suggesting I just ignore animal welfare entirely?

 

[Triggaaar]

From; 44:12

Are you sure? It's only 44:13 long.

 

[symyjym]

Are you sure? It's only 44:13 long.

You are right it's 33:50

 

[Triggaaar]

I shan't post the direct video link, but you are free to visit animal aid.org.uk and take a look at their campaign pages for Slaughter and the mandatory introduction of CCTV into slaughter houses to ensure standards are met, it's not pleasant viewing and the "stunning" is every bit as distressing as the halal methods.

Well I've looked at the website, and it doesn't seem to be against stunning - I think it's pro stunning, is it not? Vets etc are also pro stunning.

So what are you saying?

 

[Superphil]

Report from January this year;

"One in 50 cattle killed in Britain is not stunned; roughly one in 30 chickens suffer the same fate. The figure rises to one in seven for sheep and goat"

So sheep and goat are more likely to be halal or kosher slaughtered (without stunning) than beef or chicken, and even then it is only a small percentage that is. 2% of beef, 3% of chicken, not really overrunning our meat supply is it?

 

[Superphil]

I would say that most imported meat is Halal. Most chicken is Halal. Buy from a farm shop or a market. At least they should be able to tell you its provenance.

Most chicken is not halal if it's produced in the UK only about 3% is slaughtered without stunning.

 

[GT49er]

But how is it cruel if the animals have been stunned first? Just check your preferred supermarket ensures all their own brand meat is from animals stunned before slaughter.

I have my doubts about the stunning - especially as animals can apparently recover from it. I'd rather the 'humane killer' type of gun thing was used. That's my preference. You might not agree, or call it silly or stupid, but there's no point in arguing, because at the end of the day it will still be my preference.

 

[Triggaaar]

I have my doubts about the stunning - especially as animals can apparently recover from it. I'd rather the 'humane killer' type of gun thing was used. That's my preference. You might not agree, or call it silly or stupid, but there's no point in arguing, because at the end of the day it will still be my preference.

Firstly, there is a point in arguing, because we can all learn more and become better placed to make an informed decision.

You want a 'humane killer' type of gun to be used. I think you're probably referring to a bolt, which is a form of stunning, not killing. The animals we eat are not killed with a gun.

So while you're asking for food which is not halal, that won't solve your problem, as the non halal meat is still from animals killed with a knife.

 

[Brian Fantana]

Halal is a cleaner, more humane way of extracting meat from an animal. Instead of the torture some of the animals receive in non-Halal abattoirs, killing them by a single cut to the throat is surely preferable. I have no issues with whoever prepares my meat, whether they identify as muslim, christian or other made-up groups..

Also, your point 5 is pointless. Bacon 'can' be removed from menus in any restaurant, but often isn't.

So, I don't care about point 1 or 6, and I think points 3, 4 and 5 are incorrect. As for point two, I couldn't be bothered whether someone considers me inferior or not, as long as I get my takeaway.

This, this and, indeed, this.