Cook & Elphick

[Theatre of Trees]

Tommy's league appearances were:
10/11 = 27 apps (total 35)
09/10 = 44 apps (total 50)
08/09 = 39 apps (total 49)
07/08 = 39 apps (total 44)

I never said he was first choice that season, but to say he was a peripheral figure prior to his injury was disingenuous to say the least.

I don't buy all this hindsight stuff, Elphick and Cook as two Sussex lads should have been given more opportunities, and we should have realised that along with Dunk we had 3 of the brightest CB prospects around. Symptomatic of the poor judgement Poyet had in a lot of areas in my opinion - he had the talent to get promoted, but he thought he had to spend big.

Elphick's year lay off coincided with our first season in the Championship. During that time we had the emergence of Lewis Dunk who pushed him further down the pecking order. When Elphick returned much of the team had a year's Championship experience whereas Tommy had never played above League One. He was offered an extension to his contract, but only a year, and that as a squad member behind Greer, Dunk and El Abd. Bournemouth offered him 3 years playing regularly at League One level which Elphick took the gamble in accepting.

These decisions were made at the time for these reasons no one has a crystal ball predicting Bournemouth would be in the Premiership in three years time.

 

[Julio]

When we sold Cook & Elphick, the club made the choice of building the team around experience with a view to getting promotion sorted there and then. Inevitably, this meant players who need to be playing 1st team football, such as Elphick, moving on to protect their career.

This approach would have been great if we had got promoted, but with all plans it came with a risk. We missed out and it all unravelled. Speaking to non-Albion fans, they were of the view that Poyet should have taken us up with the team and resource he had - when you look back you have to say that some of his conservatism (compared to say the more attacking instincts of flavour of the month, Eddie H) did mean we turned winnable games into draws, and that cost us.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Elphick's year lay off coincided with our first season in the Championship. During that time we had the emergence of Lewis Dunk who pushed him further down the pecking order. When Elphick returned much of the team had a year's Championship experience whereas Tommy had never played above League One. He was offered an extension to his contract, but only a year, and that as a squad member behind Greer, Dunk and El Abd. Bournemouth offered him 3 years playing regularly at League One level which Elphick took the gamble in accepting.

These decisions were made at the time for these reasons no one has a crystal ball predicting Bournemouth would be in the Premiership in three years time.

Excuses really. Nothing stopped us offer a young local kid with nearly 200 appearances behind him a decent contract after his injury and send him out on loan for regular first team football.

The crystal ball, or hindsight some people like to call it, is actually 'talent judgement'. Successful clubs have it, unsuccessful clubs don't.

 

[Da Man Clay]

Letting Elphick go was entirely reasonable in the circumstances. Had been pushed down the pecking order after a long lay off and we couldn't give him the football he needed.

Cook I have a little more of an issue with. Younger player and was versatile enough to play at CB or RB. Felt we could have given him a little more time to progress with us (although can't remember his contract situation so that may have been a problem).

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Excuses really. Nothing stopped us offer a young local kid with nearly 200 appearances behind him a decent contract after his injury and send him out on loan for regular first team football.

The crystal ball, or hindsight some people like to call it, is actually 'talent judgement'. Successful clubs have it, unsuccessful clubs don't.

He was offered and signed a contract in June of 2012. Bournemouth offered him a three year contract just two months later for a club a division below.

 

[Bold Seagull]

He was offered and signed a contract in June of 2012. Bournemouth offered him a three year contract just two months later for a club a division below.

Exactly. A club in the division below, with far less resources than us (at that time) was able to offer him a much better contract. Talent judgement.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Exactly. A club in the division below, with far less resources than us (at that time) was able to offer him a much better contract. Talent judgement.

Longer contract. Most people agreed that a year's contract after such a bad injury, was the right thing to do in case he hadn't fully recovered from a bodged job and re-done op in Finland.

 

[BensGrandad]

He was offered and signed a contract in June of 2012. Bournemouth offered him a three year contract just two months later for a club a division below.

Was that not a short contract to cover his comeback from injury, dont know just asking.

Just seen your later post added while I was posting mine. I thought, but could be wrong it was a 6 month contract to take him to the January window to give them time to look at him and for him to play some games.

 

[JCL666]

Exactly. A club in the division below, with far less resources than us (at that time) was able to offer him a much better contract. Talent judgement.

They offered him regular first team football. We didn't because we had a whole load of decent centre backs.

Picture this. You come back from a bad injury, your current club offer you a contract extension but limited first team opportunities. Of course he could have gone on loan.

Maybe he thought, I've just had a bad injury, I need to get some sort of guarantee for my future.

Bournemouth gambled. Nothing to do with talent judgment.

How many players who have had injuries have we gambled on? Kemi, Vicente, Buckley, Hoskins, Orlandi. Not many have worked out.

 

[symyjym]

Howe chose players with desire, quality, potential and time on their side, and got them to all peak at the same time. Poyet looked to players whose careers peaked years ago. It was a bit like Escape to victory but without a happy ending.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I've not really seen enough of Bournemouth to answer this question (and it might sound a bit naïve), but is Tommy THAT much better than he was when he was with us?

Yes, he's club captain – but then so's GG, and we all know how HE'S performed in certain games this season – but is that part of the reason there is so much talk about him and blaming of the club going on here?

 

[chaileyjem]

In the last 5 years the number of players the club have released (not loanees) or sold who've gone on to have more successful careers than they had at the Amex is tiny.
Most players have actually either retired, are struggling, or playing in lower divisions.

For those that have inexplicably jumped at the offer of going to the Premier League instead of staying put (how dare they !!) we've normally negotiated good fees (Bridcutt, Ulloa, Buckley - all of whom have had decidedly mixed seasons in the Prem). Other decent prospects tended to be either inconsistent (Noone) or fringe/squad players (the aforementioned Elphick, Cook) or um (Glenn Murray). He's the obvious exception. I grant you. But nobody really missed him until 15 months later he finally started knocking in crosses or penalties created by Zaha and Bolasie.

Everyone else, who oddly never get their own NSC thread every few days, we don't tend to hear about.
(Painter, Navarro, El-Abd, Adgenstein, Harley, Dicker, Hoskins, Barker, Brezovan, Vincelot, Kasim, Bergkamp, etc etc).

Even what seemed like curious decisions last summer; Orlandi (now L1), Kush (out of work for 6 months), Spanish Dave (one spectacular free kick back in Spain - not much else) haven't exactly been kicking up the daisies.

Good luck to Tommy Elphick anyway. Lots more threads for you on NSC i predict...

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

For me, I can't see Elphick being a regular Premiership player, hope i'm wide of the mark as he's a top bloke but I think he'll be a squad player at best. Cook is the more talented of the two imo and I was gutted when he left, think he'll make the step up well.

Monk at Swansea?

 

[Bold Seagull]

In the last 5 years the number of players the club have released (not loanees) or sold who've gone on to have more successful careers than they had at the Amex is tiny.
Most players have actually either retired, are struggling, or playing in lower divisions.

For those that have inexplicably jumped at the offer of going to the Premier League instead of staying put (how dare they !!) we've normally negotiated good fees (Bridcutt, Ulloa, Buckley - all of whom have had decidedly mixed seasons in the Prem). Other decent prospects tended to be either inconsistent (Noone) or fringe/squad players (the aforementioned Elphick, Cook) or um (Glenn Murray). He's the obvious exception. I grant you. But nobody really missed him until 15 months later he finally started knocking in crosses or penalties created by Zaha and Bolasie.

Everyone else, who oddly never get their own NSC thread every few days, we don't tend to hear about.
(Painter, Navarro, El-Abd, Adgenstein, Harley, Dicker, Hoskins, Barker, Brezovan, Vincelot, Kasim, Bergkamp, etc etc).

Even what seemed like curious decisions last summer; Orlandi (now L1), Kush (out of work for 6 months), Spanish Dave (one spectacular free kick back in Spain - not much else) haven't exactly been kicking up the daisies.

Good luck to Tommy Elphick anyway. Lots more threads for you on NSC i predict...

I know you'd defend the Albion even if they were burning babies in Lewes on bonfire night, but unlike all the players you've listed - Elphick and Cook were Sussex lads we had as kids. Big difference to let your own go who go onto better things. You don't win anything with kids I guess.

 

[chaileyjem]

I know you'd defend the Albion even if they were burning babies in Lewes on bonfire night, but unlike all the players you've listed - Elphick and Cook were Sussex lads we had as kids. Big difference to let your own go who go onto better things. You don't win anything with kids I guess.

I'm not defending the club for doing it. Tony Bloom might be sitting there this morning cursing Gus for letting em go for all i know. I'm just saying a) there were sound justifiable reasons for doing it that many on NSC accepted at the time b) and that its very rare for Albion, in recent times, to let go youth prospects like this that then go onto have more successful careers...They are probably the only two in the last 5 years...

 

[brakespear]

At the time I thought they where mad leaving us, now it turns out it is the best moves they ever made. Just shows the quality we let go at the time. It seems to happen to us for some reason.
We still have Dunk who is one of our own. Well done Bournemouth but I wish these players where here to see us in the Premier League.

At the time, I thought it was us who were mad for letting Cook go, seemed very shortsighted. Can't say I felt the same about Elphick though

 

[symyjym]

Football is about identifying and developing up and coming talent, not recruiting the old guard. That said, Poyet would have never got us out of this league with them anyway because of his style of football. Going 180 mins without scoring in the playoffs is as poor as poor can be.

 

[chaileyjem]

You don't win anything with kids I guess.

PS: In the last 6 months the club have admittedly protected their investment/the prospects in the squad by granting expensive new extended contracts to Solly March (20), Christian Walton (19), Glen Rea (20), JFC (21), Dunk (23), Ince (22) and Lua Lua (24). Perhaps mindful of the Cook/Elphick precedent.

 

[nwgull]

PS: In the last 6 months the club have admittedly protected their investment/the prospects in the squad by granting expensive new extended contracts to Solly March (20), Christian Walton (19), Glen Rea (20), JFC (21), Dunk (23), Ince (22) and Lua Lua (24). Perhaps mindful of the Cook/Elphick precedent.

I didn't realise that Ince had signed a new contract. Does it last beyond the end of 15/16 now?

 

[sydney]

Your right the owner will now spend big in some areas which means other players will be pushed to one side, which could ruin the original team spirit. Anyway well done Bournemouth. You proved the doubters wrong including me.

well most of 'em probably live around this area....