Clerk Jailed for Refusing to Give out Gay marriage licences

[drew]

I agree.

The whole thing appears to have got massively out of hand (she has obviously played her part in this). The whole gay marriage thing was about tolerance and acceptance of others. I can't help but feel that someone ending up in prison goes against the ideal of something so recently won. I don't agree with her stance on this but surely in the interests of tolerance and acceptance a less drastic solution to this problem could be found?

She doesn't want a less drastic solution though. Sees herself as a martyr to her cause. She is where she is because she is less tolerant and not accepting of other peoples legal lifestyles.

 

[pastafarian]

dingodan makes valid points

 

[looney]

To be fair, it doesn't matter what you, me or anyone else thinks. Surely it is more relevant what the members of KKK believe. To quote from Wiki, 'Though most members of the KKK saw themselves as holding to American values and Christian morality, virtually every christian denomination officially denounced the Ku Klux Klan.'

A comparison could be that IS consider themselves Muslims whereas numerous Muslim groups around the world denounce their brand of Islam.

Nah, not buying it. Its part of the "We need an evil christianorg to compare to isis/islam because we look like twats by trying it on with WBC. the roots of ISIS are Islam year zero. the roots of the KKK was post war fear of black/northern payback,democrat party funding etc etc

 

[looney]

Im not waisting time on citationless utubes, or bandwidth. I'll put wha ti did fo rtheotherposter......Nah, not buying it. Its part of the "We need an evil christianorg to compare to isis/islam because we look like twats by trying it on with WBC. the roots of ISIS are Islam year zero. the roots of the KKK was post war fear of black/northern payback,democrat party funding etc etc

 

[AlbionPics&SouthCoastTwit]

Does seem appropriate that the county includes a town named Morehead. When the Morehead State University Eagles male cheerleaders yell the name "Morehead" at American football games it does appear a tricky nut to crack.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmTCN1aInM8

 

[Landgull]

A slightly strange turn of phrase there BF. The law had changed, it is exactly that point she should have been putting her religious convictions to one side to do her JOB ..... or resign.[
/QUOTE]

Surely this is the MAIN point. She was contracted to do a job which has since changed, so the contract has been broken, is this acceptable?

The law is an ass, and doesn't allow for any heartfelt convictions which she is entitled to and has the right to refuse based on the original contract.

When the law changed the contract should have been renegotiated then this situation would have not happened.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

A slightly strange turn of phrase there BF. The law had changed, it is exactly that point she should have been putting her religious convictions to one side to do her JOB ..... or resign.[
/QUOTE]

Surely this is the MAIN point. She was contracted to do a job which has since changed, so the contract has been broken, is this acceptable?

The law is an ass, and doesn't allow for any heartfelt convictions which she is entitled to and has the right to refuse based on the original contract.

When the law changed the contract should have been renegotiated then this situation would have not happened.

I'm pretty sure that her 'contract' would have stated that she was to issue licences to those legally allowed to get married - thus gay people as well. Gay people can't help that the state had a religious bigot issuing those licenses - I also couldn't give a toss that she didn't like the idea. She should have resigned - I'm rather glad someone like her has ended up with the criminal record and in prison - we can do with less of her sort on this planet.

 

[drew]

Im not waisting time on citationless utubes, or bandwidth. I'll put wha ti did fo rtheotherposter......Nah, not buying it. Its part of the "We need an evil christianorg to compare to isis/islam because we look like twats by trying it on with WBC. the roots of ISIS are Islam year zero. the roots of the KKK was post war fear of black/northern payback,democrat party funding etc etc

KKK founded in the 1800s

 

[Lord Bracknell]

A slightly strange turn of phrase there BF. The law had changed, it is exactly that point she should have been putting her religious convictions to one side to do her JOB ..... or resign.[
/QUOTE]

Surely this is the MAIN point. She was contracted to do a job which has since changed, so the contract has been broken, is this acceptable?

The law is an ass, and doesn't allow for any heartfelt convictions which she is entitled to and has the right to refuse based on the original contract.

When the law changed the contract should have been renegotiated then this situation would have not happened.

But it's not a negotiated contract. She got the job (of administering the law in her county) because she was elected by the people. Are you suggesting that every time any law changes, there should be a fresh election or some sort of negotiation with the office holder. And who should negotiate on behalf of the people?

 

[beorhthelm]

whole debate about contracts is daft, i would assume that the contract includes a clause along the lines of "observing all local and state laws". just like any job includes a clause to follow company policy documents x, y, z, which can be changed at anytime by the company. seems to me highly unlikly a conflict between a persons conscience and their job hasnt occured before. for example, interracial marrigae was only fully legalised in the 1960s in US, im sure that would have found a similar dissent in southern states when that change was implemented.

 

[Del Fenner]

I think she should be fired and they should get on with it. Should have been a non-issue. What I object to is people saying she deserves to be in prison. I didn't pay much attention to the specifics of this case, it sounds like she is being deliberately obstructive rather than just refusing to do something herself. But I still think that could have been sorted out another way, with the marriage being signed off and nobody going to prison. The point I was making was that tolerance means tolerating the intolerant.

& to be clear I wasn't defending this woman because I like her or agree with her views, I was defending her despite the fact that I don't.

She can't be fired because she is a publically elected official.

She can only be impeached by the state legislature.

She has gone to prison because she has refused to obey the law, and she is not above it. No-one else can sign off the marriage, which is why the court had to intervene.

Rather than do the honourable thing (resign on the basis that her conscience will not permit her to operate the legal requirements of her job) she has done the dishonourable (asserted that her views entitle her to refuse to discharge her legal duty).

 

[looney]

KKK founded in the 1800s

Yes I know. When I said post war Ishouldof put Post civil war for the first KKK..

 

[gregbrighton]

The time where people deferred to religion has long passed. There is no wriggled room. This multiple divorcee elected official shoud either comply or or resign. The gay couple should not be discriminated against. They have an equal right to marriage certificate as anyone else..

 

[drew]

whole debate about contracts is daft, i would assume that the contract includes a clause along the lines of "observing all local and state laws". just like any job includes a clause to follow company policy documents x, y, z, which can be changed at anytime by the company. seems to me highly unlikly a conflict between a persons conscience and their job hasnt occured before. for example, interracial marrigae was only fully legalised in the 1960s in US, im sure that would have found a similar dissent in southern states when that change was implemented.

I'm not sure contracts have anything to do with it. She stood for election and got voted in for a term of office. I'm sure at the start of her term she was well aware of the debate about same sex marriages and the possibility that it might become law.

 

[dingodan]

The time where people deferred to religion has long passed. There is no wriggled room.

Perhaps what you ought to say is that you personally don't believe in religion.

Otherwise you will sound like a bigot, and I know how much you hate bigots.

 

[Frampler]

This is an elected official who is refusing to follow court orders, and in doing so denying US citizens their constitutional rights. You have to be incredibly naive to swallow the line that she is some kind of martyr.

 

[gregbrighton]

Perhaps what you ought to say is that you personally don't believe in religion.

Otherwise you will sound like a bigot, and I know how much you hate bigots.

I'm no bigot. I have hated the way that religion has persecuted and discriminated against the LGBT community throughout it's long history. This is from someone who worked within the Church of England for twenty three years and who campaigned for the denomination to rethink it's stance and negative policies towards lesbian and gay people.

I am glad the community is fighting back along with the rest of an enlightened society to question and bring outdated, repressive religious attitudes and doctrines to account.

 

[daveinprague]

Ridiculous woman. The only 'debate' in the US, will be from homophobes, and Christian religious zealots, forcing their middle eastern religion on everybody. If you cannot do your job because of your religion. Leave the job.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Surely then they could organise someone else to do the marriage licences until her term of office is up. Seems like a load of hassle and expense for little reason.

The court empowered 5 of her 6 deputies to issue licences in her place, but she revoked that decision - presumably before she was jailed and, presumably also, that contributes to the thinking behind her jailing.

As a card carrying Christian, I feel sorry for her but think she left the court with no alternative. But I do not share her conviction about same sex marriage.

 

[BadFish]

The court empowered 5 of her 6 deputies to issue licences in her place, but she revoked that decision - presumably before she was jailed and, presumably also, that contributes to the thinking behind her jailing.

As a card carrying Christian, I feel sorry for her but think she left the court with no alternative. But I do not share her conviction about same sex marriage.

Yes it certainly seems she did.