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Ched Evans
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Gullflyinghigh
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2012
- 4,279
Seconded.
drew
Drew
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
Strewth. You'll get a certain NSC poster suggesting we sign him again now.
Tooting Gull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 11,033
That's a very big bit of news today. Can you imagine the fallout if he gets cleared on Appeal. Everything that has been said. All the campaigns to effectively make it impossible for him to work/play elsewhere...
Tbh, an awful lot of people were of the opinion that the guy is an absolute scrote, but accept that 'guilt' in this case is very much subjective.
If a different person / judge / court decides he's no longer guilty, on a point of law, it won't change his behavior, or their own subjective view on his 'guilt'.
(Apologies if that makes little sense - I know what I meant)
Da Man Clay
T'Blades
- Dec 16, 2004
- 16,254
Doesn't really affect all that has gone before - at the time he was (and still is at this stage) a convicted rapist.
Think I know what you mean....regardless of the outcome, his behaviour on the night in question was pretty abhorrent.
Indeed - if I were an employer who had chosen not to employ him at the time, or a fan who had campaigned for my club not to sign him, I'd be perfectly comfortable with my stance, based on that behaviour - regardless of any appeal.
Tooting Gull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 11,033
You're right in the sense that he was and still is a convicted rapist at the time - so there wouldn't be any comeback on libel/defamation grounds or anything like that.
But not sure you can really claim it wouldn't affect all that has gone before. There has been more written about this, and very strong stuff (this thread being just one example), then most recent issues I can remember.
In a way I think it is a good thing that he has his day in the Appeal Court, because if he loses that then it is done and dusted for good and realistically he has nowhere else to go and no complaints.
Tooting Gull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 11,033
Obviously this is all hypothetical, but I don't know how you (not just you, anyone) could say that it made no difference whether he was or wasn't a convicted rapist. It is pretty fundamental.
nwgull
Well-known member
Of course the outcome matters. If the conviction stands, he raped a woman; if it's quashed, he had consensual sex with woman who seemingly regretted it the following day (we've all been there). Slight difference.
Personally I'm quite pleased that this is being appealed. Ultimately, if they turn down the appeal I think we can categorically say he is a rapist. Until this appeal is heard, there is a nagging doubt about his conviction I think (although I'm really not disputing that his behaviour has been pretty disgusting regardless).
Absolutely right. HKFC makes a good point that regardless of the outcome, potential employees can feel comfortable about their decision not to recruit him. But ultimately, if he didn't rape her, it needs to quashed. That bit is of great relevance to the world at large.
I'm not suggesting it 'makes no difference'. Of course it does.
What I'm saying is that I personally think he is a scrote (based entirely on HIS account of the night), and would still not wish to employ him, or see him at a club I support, regardless of his guilt in the eyes of the law.
Wo, hold on a minute. If he's found guilty (again), then he's guilt of rape, and will be forever known as a rapist. If he's found innocent, then he's not 'no longer guilty', he never was guilty, he was simply wrongly convicted. And where does 'point of law' come into it? You're prejudging a trial that hasn't occurred. He may have been granted the appeal on a point of law, but IF he's found not guilty, then that's not a point of law.
The guy's a complete shit, but unfortunately, there are plenty of them about, and plenty in football too. That, however, is very different to being a rapist.
That's not quite true. If it's quashed, then it's not beyond doubt that he raped her. It's unlikely to be the case that they prove it was consensual.
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Tooting Gull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 11,033
I can understand that viewpoint, I'm sure you wouldn't be alone. There might be some employment law issues about refusing to hire a 'free man' with legally no stain on his reputation if he was cleared on appeal, but we're a long way from that yet. Certainly going to be huge interest in those proceedings.
nwgull
Well-known member
The fact that he cheated on his girlfriend is not for us to judge him on. That's between him and her, and she's clearly forgiven him.
Other than that, IF he's cleared, then all he did was have casual sex with a woman - something that 1000s of men and women do every weekend when a few drinks have lowered inhibitions.
Edited
IF he's cleared, we'll still never know how involved the girl was. She could have been anything from unconscious to clearly wanting to have sex.