Brighton Station Pre Match Last Night

[seagullsovergrimsby]

There would be another operational problem for the bus company, though.

These are scheduled daily bus services that have to run to a timetable registered with the Traffic Commissioner, which is enforced by VOSA. NOT running the advertised service to Palmeira Square on days when a football match is being played would let down the year-round customers and incur massive penalties from the enforcement authorities. Bus services may be "de-regulated", but they are not that de-regulated.

Yet B&H Buses can get away with "short workings" on journeys suffering from heavy traffic congestion every now and again

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Let's be honest. Nothing is going to be done about this as it only inconveniences non-VIP fans. Those in control at the club (including the Transport Manager!) and who have any real sway have a parking space at the ground and wouldn't go near the train station on match day.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Let's be honest. Nothing is going to be done about this as it only inconveniences non-VIP fans. Those in control at the club (including the Transport Manager!) and who have any real sway have a parking space at the ground and wouldn't go near the train station on match day.

There's more than a bit of truth in that. Same is there is in the eyes of anybody that runs football. They always just assume that somehow football fans will turn up in their thousands no matter how crap the transport arrangements or on how short notice they rearrange a fixture to something way more annoying than it was before. Let's hope they're right, else they're all out of a job.

 

[Billy the Fish]

The failure that I saw last night was post-match, when two Lewes-bound trains were allowed to leave Falmer with masses of space available on the trains (not just standing room, but unoccupied seats) at about 10.30pm, while there was still a long queue of people being denied access to the platform. I tried to have a conversation about this with the stewards who were controlling the gate and with one of BTP's Community Rail Officers, but they all adopted that glazed-eye stance of pretending to be unaware that someone was trying to speak with them. When I spoke with the conductor on the train, he agreed that there was plenty of space, but said (quite rightly) that there was nothing he could do, if the people controlling things at Falmer get it wrong.

They did get it wrong, and a lot of people were unnecessarily delayed. All it would take to avoid this happening is to have one intelligent member of staff whose sole job is to monitor the availability of space on the train and communicate effectively with the people controlling the access gate to the platform. This isn't difficult on the Lewes-bound platform at Falmer.

It was happening on the Brighton bound trains as well. I mentioned it on last weeks' travel moan thread, it really does seem like they randomly guess how many people they let on the platform rather than knowing and recording how many people per carriage need to get on.

If you try and suggest they're not letting enough people on they get all defensive.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It was happening on the Brighton bound trains as well. I mentioned it on last weeks' travel moan thread, it really does seem like they randomly guess how many people they let on the platform rather than knowing and recording how many people per carriage need to get on.

If you try and suggest they're not letting enough people on they get all defensive.

I thought they were actually pretty good at trying to fill the Brighton-bound platform last night.

 

[TheJasperCo]

This is what club/council/rail operators don't understand in relation to these kinds of incidents on the way to a big game - you only suffer it once. You just can't risk trusting it. Then you find an alternative, be it car or anything else.

Mill Road, the most convenient P&R for many fans was full and closed by 6pm last night.

Still, at least the Coldean NIMBYs had some nice empty streets.

I don't go to many games, but when I do I always use the MR P&R. If it's closed I drive through the underpass and just park up alongside the Waterhall playing fields. Loads of space whenever I've tried it, and the shuttles still run from there, even if Mill Road itself is "closed".

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Same goes for the never-ending queues and incompetent staff at the concessions. Those in the VIP lounges just aren't bothered.

I went in East Stand Lower yesterday and was surprised to see how much poorer the provision is there compared to the North Stand. The North has a lot more drink only stands and lots more toilets, gents in particular. Plus no Guinness in the East Stand. I appreciate that those in the North Stand may typically drink more than the East, but I was surprised how much worse off the East Standers are, particularly as they pay more for their tickets!

 

[Stuart Munday]

I thought they were actually pretty good at trying to fill the Brighton-bound platform last night.

I was in the queue and the 22.16 train for Brighton was only half full, in the last 2 coaches there was not one person standing.

They then let the next lot of us down to the platform and let people file accross to the left side, a 3 coach train came in and dozens of us had to then move back up to the platform and there was a big scrum to get on the first coach, stewards then spent a bit of time getting people to move up the train and probably over crowded it to be honest but not sure why they didn't do this for the longer train that came in before.

I never normally criticize the travel on here but a few tweaks here and there would certainly improve the situation, we already have a poor (mostly unfounded) reputation amongst other supporters about it being a nightmare getting to/from games which I think affects the away support we get here and last night didn't really help.

 

[Ernest]

Until it impacts on the crowd numbers and people stop going then nothing will change, I used the Seagull Travel bus last night for the first time having won a free ticket on the Hat Trick scratch cards and was very impressed.

I will be going that way next season, trains are too much bother now

 

[Pinkie Brown]

No. The issue will be that Southern only have a limited number of carriages and they prioritise (quite rightly) their daily customers.

Extra trains for evening football matches could, no doubt, be acquired, but the costs would be horrendous, to say nothing of the costs of providing the land and track to park them on, for the 355 days a year that they would be doing nothing. The only way I could imagine this happening would be if the Albion agreed to pay the capital costs. I'd rather the money was spent on strengthening the squad. Or buying gold-plated cutlery to be given away with the pies.

Could they not come to an arrangement with FCC to borrow/loan some of their rolling stock in the late evenings? What about those Gatwick Express trains that spend most of their time parked up in the sidings at Eastbourne? (Although a Train Driver friend once told me they were the Travant of the rolling stock)

 

[Vegas Seagull]

Some rail person must read this so I'll repeat occasionally until they move towards the easy solution
At Wembley the Stadium overground train has 8 or 12 carriages and SITS waiting on the platform as the match finishes and fills up. 10 yards behind it waits another that moves in and fills up again...no schedule required and non stopping to Marlylebone

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Some rail person must read this so I'll repeat occasionally until they move towards the easy solution
At Wembley the Stadium overground train has 8 or 12 carriages and SITS waiting on the platform as the match finishes and fills up. 10 yards behind it waits another that moves in and fills up again...no schedule required and non stopping to Marlylebone [for purposes of this post read Brighton - THPP]

I think that this is maybe key. As the extra trains laid on for the Albion for weekday matches wouldn't be there on a normal weeknight, then maybe its not quite so important that they leave on time (other than for maybe railway-related signalling issues or something) rather than they leave fully-laden with people. Filling them with people should be the focus IMHO, certainly for the extra trains that the albion are presumably paying a big chunk of money for.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Yet B&H Buses can get away with "short workings" on journeys suffering from heavy traffic congestion every now and again

Interestingly ... er, no, I'll rephrase that ... Boringly, earlier today, I was reading a communication from the Senior Traffic Commissioner setting out her guidance for fines that will be levied on bus companies that fail to run public bus services in accordance with the published timetables. The standard fine for failing to achieve 80 per cent reliability is now £550 multiplied by the number of buses in the company's fleet. In the case of B&H Buses, with their 303 buses, this is just over £166,000. Operators aren't allowed to use the excuse of traffic congestion, if it's a regular, predictable occurrence, but they are allowed to vary timetables without running the risk of a fine if it is the result of an unexpected delay caused, for example, by a traffic crash or a man going nuts outside Sainsburys.

Repeated offences carry a higher penalty, up to and including the loss of the operator's licence.

 

[Pinkie Brown]

Some rail person must read this so I'll repeat occasionally until they move towards the easy solution
At Wembley the Stadium overground train has 8 or 12 carriages and SITS waiting on the platform as the match finishes and fills up. 10 yards behind it waits another that moves in and fills up again...no schedule required and non stopping to Marlylebone

Ah but.....

Last year there was an important game of football between two teams at Wembley Stadium - One from Watford and one from the north of Croydon area. You may all recall? Southern run a train service from South Croydon to Milton Keynes and back. En route, this service passes through Wembley Central and Watford Junction. Perfect for both sets of Supporters you would think? Erm, not quite.......

Due to Health and Safety concerns, it was deemed for Play Off Final Day, the South Croydon to Milton Keynes service and the returns would not call at Wembley Central.

Doooh What a way to run a railway?

 

[perseus]

Two hours to travel 12 mies

It was happening on the Brighton bound trains as well. I mentioned it on last weeks' travel moan thread, it really does seem like they randomly guess how many people they let on the platform rather than knowing and recording how many people per carriage need to get on.

If you try and suggest they're not letting enough people on they get all defensive.

This bit is done well, even last night. They have clickers (count the people). Trains stations are dangerous places if crowded and an incident happens. Credit to it being twatproof so far. Some trains left Brighton with a little spare capacity, but these trains stop at London Road and Moulsecoomb where people cannot get on otherwise.

On the way in, I think a special eight coach train is extra and four coaches added on to another train. It was not enough.

My surmise is the trains do have extra capacity locally as in the holiday periods the trains are longer.

As for signalling, 80 years ago trains could manage a greater frequency and they were steam trains. As the train companies are getting paid, I'm sure they could provide a better service.

What gets me down is the West Coastway bit though. I can handle the bit into Brighton without becoming too stressed to spoil the day, but the final connections (or lack of) gets me down.

Against Millwall, they had a straight through train (west straight through to Falmer*) on one occasion. It has to be only 3 coaches though. (*this used to be regular at one time, but because the trains crosses the main line tracks it might hold up other trains, if late).

Not only the amount of rolling stock, there may be staff shortages in the evening. That does not stop making the trains longer.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Interestingly ... er, no, I'll rephrase that ... Boringly, earlier today, I was reading a communication from the Senior Traffic Commissioner setting out her guidance for fines that will be levied on bus companies that fail to run public bus services in accordance with the published timetables. The standard fine for failing to achieve 80 per cent reliability is now £550 multiplied by the number of buses in the company's fleet. In the case of B&H Buses, with their 303 buses, this is just over £166,000. Operators aren't allowed to use the excuse of traffic congestion, if it's a regular, predictable occurrence, but they are allowed to vary timetables without running the risk of a fine if it is the result of an unexpected delay caused, for example, by a traffic crash or a man going nuts outside Sainsburys.

Repeated offences carry a higher penalty, up to and including the loss of the operator's licence.

Zzz...whassat..rrpph...zzzzz

 

[trueblue]

Agreed. Let's not forget ... the deal with the railways starts with a conversation that should go something like this ...

Football Club: "We want to make arrangements with you to ensure that a quarter of a million passenger journeys can be made on your trains over the coming year, maybe more, if the service is good. We're prepared to pay you. What can you offer?"

And later on ...

Football Club: "We're paying for a quarter of a million passengers to travel on your trains. They're not getting the service that you promised. What are you going to do about it?"

I do get what you're saying and agree to an extent. But the train company can just as easily reply, "What are YOU going to do about it?". Unless Albion start their own train company, they haven't really got an option have they?

 

[portlock seagull]

It is indeed an utter shambles. With a significant anniversary for D-Day just around the corner, it's a reminder that far greater transport problems have been resolved.

Thank god Southern weren't in charge of Operation Overlord - troops would have been put ashore in Southern Ireland.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Thank god Southern weren't in charge of Operation Overlord

But they were.

http://www.kentpast.co.uk/history of southern railway.html

The SR played a vital role in the Second World War, embarking the British Expeditionary Force, during the Dunkirk operations, and supplying Operation Overlord in 1944; because the railway was primarily a passenger network, its success was an even more remarkable achievement.

 

[portlock seagull]

I know, I was only jesting Lord B and really referring to the sailing part. Unless I'm very much mistaken, Sealink and Townsend T did that bit