[Politics] Brexit

[El Presidente]

There was no rethinking of the economy however - Brexit will force many changes on people - and we will have to start being a manufacturing economy again



True. But last year, 40% of electricity was generated by nuclear and renewable energy - this is going up year on year. I expect that 2016 will show that most of electricity is non-carbon powered. When Hinkley comes on board this will be higher still. Companies will have to think more broadly: there's a massive amount of geothermal energy in Iceland and they've just started marketing that to datacentre providers in the rest of Europe - that's about 2% of our power demands.




We're about 76% self-sufficient as it is, it wouldn't take a huge amount of effort to boost that higher. We will able to target farming subsidies better - they go on farming land, not on food production at the moment. I'm not convinced that we will get a reduction in migration - I certainly hope not. I voted out of the EU but approve of free movement



Really?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/06/22/brexit-economic-case/#7174231f374b

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/22/the-uk-economy-will-perform-better-outside-the-eu

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/21/11974600/brexit-eu-euro-disaster

I'm certainly not saying it's going to be easy and it's going to be less easy if the headbangers in the Tories get their way. To lose financial passporting would be a big problem for the economy and to halt migration would be even worse. The benefits will be seen in the long term - there will be short term pain - but it entails rethinking about the way we live, we work, we travel and we eat. But it's only going to be a disaster if we want it to be

Do you want your children to be fruit pickers when they grow up?

 

[El Presidente]

we will have to start being a manufacturing economy again

But how will that happen?

To manufacture you need capital, engineers, designers, high productivity and products that appeal to both the domestic and overseas consumer.........and a 10-20 year lead time minimum.

There is no evidence that those are in abundance in the service sector UK economy.


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[Gwylan]

Do you want your children to be fruit pickers when they grow up?

Absolutely not. I want the UK to start investing heavily in areas like robotics, AI, alternative energy, electric cars, phamaceuticals etc. We need to be turning out graduates in these fields and diverting City money there. I hope the Tories see sense and stop putting barriers to employing bright foreigners and preventing overseas students coming here - we need to thrive on brain power. That's what I mean when I say we can't carry on the same way as we have before

And, yes, it will probably mean drinking less coffee and fewer blueberries for breakfast

 

[Gwylan]

But how will that happen?

To manufacture you need capital, engineers, designers, high productivity and products that appeal to both the domestic and overseas consumer.........and a 10-20 year lead time minimum.

There is no evidence that those are in abundance in the service sector UK economy.

Oh yes, this will be 10 years at least. I said earlier that there will be a lot of short term pain

 

[El Presidente]

Absolutely not. I want the UK to start investing heavily in areas like robotics, AI, alternative energy, electric cars, phamaceuticals etc. We need to be turning out graduates in these fields and diverting City money there. I hope the Tories see sense and stop putting barriers to employing bright foreigners and preventing overseas students coming here - we need to thrive on brain power. That's what I mean when I say we can't carry on the same way as we have before

And, yes, it will probably mean drinking less coffee and fewer blueberries for breakfast

.

I'd love to see exactly the same as you, but Amber Rudd wants companies to list foreign employees and make it more difficult for overseas students to study in the UK.

I fail to see how making my job less secure (80% of my undergraduate students are Chinese) is in the short or long term benefit of this country.

 

[Hastings gull]

.

I'd love to see exactly the same as you, but Amber Rudd wants companies to list foreign employees and make it more difficult for overseas students to study in the UK.

I fail to see how making my job less secure (80% of my undergraduate students are Chinese) is in the short or long term benefit of this country.[/QUOTE]

Obviously as a general principle one would not want anyone's job to be less secure. But what is your job and why would it be less secure?

 

[Hastings gull]

Very true we have a good supply of carrots
....of course no cheap foreign labour to pick some of the crops of veg we grow

Are the negotiations regarding brexit that well advanced, then?

 

[CHAPPERS]

True. But last year, 40% of electricity was generated by nuclear and renewable energy - this is going up year on year. I expect that 2016 will show that most of electricity is non-carbon powered. When Hinkley comes on board this will be higher still. Companies will have to think more broadly: there's a massive amount of geothermal energy in Iceland and they've just started marketing that to datacentre providers in the rest of Europe - that's about 2% of our power demands.

Shame they've been slashing subsidies for renewables isn't it.

 

[drew]

.

I'd love to see exactly the same as you, but Amber Rudd wants companies to list foreign employees and make it more difficult for overseas students to study in the UK.

I fail to see how making my job less secure (80% of my undergraduate students are Chinese) is in the short or long term benefit of this country.[/QUOTE]

Obviously as a general principle one would not want anyone's job to be less secure. But what is your job and why would it be less secure?

Isn't that obvious? I believe, although stand to be corrected, that EP is a lecturer. Take away 4 out of 5 from his classes then, unless they are replaced by UK students, then of course his job is less secure. Add in the fact that I suspect that the chinese students pay more for their course than their UK equivalents then you have a funding issue as well.

Is it really hard to work out?

 

[Billy the Fish]

Does anyone else think all the talk of "hard brexit" could just be to strengthen our negotiating position?

Obviously none of us are mind readers but, looking at it from the flipside, if the government came out and said they wanted to retain single market access at any cost the EU negotiators would have them by the balls from day 1. If they're going to get a good deal there has to be more then one option on the table.

 

[Triggaaar]

Does anyone else think all the talk of "hard brexit" could just be to strengthen our negotiating position?

I hope so. I understand that MPs want a say on this, but it's not the sort of thing that can be discussed in the open.

 

[Diego Napier]

He sold this country so far down down the river, he effectively swept his own career into oblivion.
During his tenure, Cameron lost 80% of all cases he took to the European Court of Justice and any semblance of control we had over EU affairs was diminishing year on year on year. Over the last 20 years, we had opposed new EU laws and measures on 72 occasions. We had been outvoted 72 times on the Council of the EU. Cameron was so desperate to come back with something that he agreed to a red card deal. This gave us the opportunity to object to any new law or measure emanating from the EU, providing we could find 14 more member states to support us ( i.e a majority )....cue....pink animals flying past windows.
In return for this fantastic concession, Cameron surrended our right as a nation, to give or withold our consent to future treaties converting the European bloc into a Eurostate. At that fateful moment of committing us to having absolutely no say or control over our future, he was a dead man walking. If the Remain campaign had won, this one single moment of utter and foolish recklessness would have condemned this country to years of civil unrest and ultimately, complete anarchy.

You start off well and I'm in complete agreement with you on Cameron however, you swiftly descend into a load of old hyperbole based on a very selective use of facts.

Let's try and paint a more accurate picture by looking at the voting in more detail (probably using the same reference website as you). Since 1999 Britain has voted No 56 times, Abstain 70 times and Yes 2466 times on EU Laws. In other words Britain has "won" 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time and been on the losing side 2% of the time.

You use the phrase "we have been outvoted" but it's really not that clear cut. Britain is represented by both government ministers in the council and by directly elected MEPs. It's relatively common for a government minister to vote No to a measure that many British MEPs support. On several occasions a UK minister has voted No to a measure supported by a majority of British MEPs, including those from the minister's own party. In addition, there have been occasions when the UK government has opposed an EU law supported by the administrations in Edinburgh, Cardiff & Belfast. So who is "we"?

Perhaps you would be more plausible if you illustrated your point with one or two UK government defeats in the EU parliament that have materially impacted your daily life. Perhaps one that has curtailed your freedom, or made you poorer, or shortened your life or made you less safe. You know, something worth really getting steamed up about.

Whether a decision is made in Brussels or Westminster is of little consequence to the ordinary person and will have minimal affect on them. Someone once said "voting is the opiate of the masses". I'd go further; democracy is better than most other religions at maintaining civil order but assuming that exercising your democratic right will materially affect your life is a delusion actively encouraged by those individuals and corporations who really wield power. "Regaining control", "Sovereignty", "Brussels bureaucrats", "EU technocrats", "Independence" are rallying-cry buzzwords ardently echoed by those expecting Brexit to invoke some sort of radical change to their daily lives. They will be disappointed.

Your concluding sentence is at best grandiloquently emotive twaddle and at worst, Good Grief!

 

[nicko31]

You seem to scour the news feeds and try and find any perceived negative econimc statistics and somehow use it to blame Brexit, its ever so tiresome.

When did Ryanair fairs become an indicator of national economic performance ?

I don't call trying to book next summers holiday scouring the news feeds. All I know is their fares are 40% up on a like for like basis, my guess is a foreign holiday will be out of reach for millions next summer

 

[Hastings gull]

Isn't that obvious? I believe, although stand to be corrected, that EP is a lecturer. Take away 4 out of 5 from his classes then, unless they are replaced by UK students, then of course his job is less secure. Add in the fact that I suspect that the chinese students pay more for their course than their UK equivalents then you have a funding issue as well.

Is it really hard to work out?

Actually he did PM me, which was a much better way of going about things than your condescending post. Of course I could see roughly what he does given what he says about his students, and why are you lecturing me when you yourself say you are not sure! Has anyone said that Chinese students would not be able to come here in the future? I rather thought that the government was mindful that foreign students don't always seem to be what they say they are and simply then stay on.

 

[El Presidente]

Has anyone said that Chinese students would not be able to come here in the future?

Unfortunately Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary, made such comments

 

[Hastings gull]

Unfortunately Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary, made such comments

View attachment 78554

Thanks for the message - sadly, the pop-up blocker did its worst but I can guess what you would have said. Yes, she has made noises, but as yet there is nothing concrete, as far as I know. But I can see that this would be worrying for you.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I don't call trying to book next summers holiday scouring the news feeds. All I know is their fares are 40% up on a like for like basis, my guess is a foreign holiday will be out of reach for millions next summer

Plenty of summer work available in the fields luckily.

 

[Hamilton]

Does anyone else think all the talk of "hard brexit" could just be to strengthen our negotiating position?

Obviously none of us are mind readers but, looking at it from the flipside, if the government came out and said they wanted to retain single market access at any cost the EU negotiators would have them by the balls from day 1. If they're going to get a good deal there has to be more then one option on the table.

I hope so too.

It's also in the interests of May and co to talk hard Brexit in order to see how the markets react. Get all the bad news out of the way as early as you can and see how events unfold. From there she can decide what decisions to make. There's certainly plenty of wriggle room in her speech to do so. A speech crafted with get out clauses e.g. the phrase 'give and take'.

 

[fat old seagull]

I'd pretty much agree with all of that. With politicians things aren't always as they appear to be, lots of shenanigans, bluff and double bluff. Though it does disturb me that the EU heavies can't be seen to give us a good deal for fear of a mass exodus. Oh well ...

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Fact of what someone who cannot accept the vote ( the person who made the comment whoever that might have been). I wasn't crowing either just stating the fact that the vote was a no.
I wonder whether you would have stated this FACT if the vote had been the other way by the same margin I doubt it

I probably would have done, actually. I have a daughter who works in local government in the Democratic Services/Scrutiny sort of area, so they deal with this sort of thing. I actually find it interesting........ yes, sad, isn't it.