A salary to match the £350 million a week to the NHS.
£62,400 a year for being a white van man. This little country is on the way up.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
A salary to match the £350 million a week to the NHS.
£62,400 a year for being a white van man. This little country is on the way up.
GoldWithFalmer
Seaweed! Seaweed!
£200/day is not out of the reach of some(those that know 45 depot areas/\London/Europe work/same day/)-sadly the NHS won't see a penny.
Hampster Gull
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,462
GT49er
Well-known member
What planet is the silly cow on? Signing article 50 triggers a two year long exit procedure from the EU. What are politicians going to do in those two years?
.......... negotiate perhaps?
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
The three days since the vote have been enough for Jean-Marc Ayrault and Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the foreign ministers of France and Germany, to come up with a nine-page document proposing a post-Brexit path for the EU. Clearly, there was more contingency planning in Paris and Frankfurt than in London ahead of the U.K. decision.
The two-speed response in the U.K. and in Europe may reflect the relative weakness of the EU's position and the relative strength of the British one. Until the U.K. triggers Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty to begin the formal exit process, the EU is a lame structure: Many of its decisions require the consent of all members, and the U.K. has veto power without any of the responsibility that comes with it.
Ayrault and Steinmeier singled out three areas in which France and Germany would pursue a joint course of action: Security, a common border and immigration policy, and a fiscal union for euro area nations.
The document talks of giving the EU an ability to plan and conduct military operations through a "permanent civil-military chain of command." A standing EU maritime force and "EU-owned capabilities in other key areas" are proposed, as well as an EU intelligence-sharing framework. Given that France and Germany are derelict in fulfilling their commitment to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization to keep military spending above 2 percent of economic output, they show a surprising determination to create a costly parallel defense structure alongside NATO.
The two ministers propose giving Frontex, the EU border agency, a permanent staff and all the necessary equipment to serve as the common border police force. They also want to adopt common immigration and asylum laws, including a European Immigration Act "that clearly states what the legal options are when it comes to working in Europe, taking into account the different states of national labor markets in the EU."
Steinmeier and Ayrault said France and Germany would undertake a joint initiative to turn the euro area into a closer-knit union by harmonizing regulation, oversight and corporate tax schemes. The end goal is a fiscal union, which would start to "support investment in the member states most severely hit by the crisis" by 2018. The ministers propose that the Eurogroup -- currently a conclave of euro area finance ministers that develops policy decisions -- gets a full-time president who would be accountable to a special parliamentary body, comprised of European parliament and national parliament members.
All told, this amounts to a superstate with a kind of elected parliament and a government with a broad economic and security mandate. At a time of unity erosion, this doesn't sound like a realistic way to proceed -- except the proposal stresses that dissenters will be able to opt out of these state-building efforts.
On a common refugee policy, the statement says, that "if necessary, Germany and France stand ready to proceed on this matter with a group of like-minded partners." And as far as a fiscal union goes, the two countries are willing to start with bilateral agreements to set an example for others.
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-27/the-u-k-doesn-t-have-a-brexit-plan-but-the-eu-does
An entirely predictable bullet dodged there. I think the remain voters should form an orderly queue and pay homage to the 17 million who save us from being subsumed into a (not so) Superstate.
Your welcome
The two-speed response in the U.K. and in Europe may reflect the relative weakness of the EU's position and the relative strength of the British one. Until the U.K. triggers Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty to begin the formal exit process, the EU is a lame structure: Many of its decisions require the consent of all members, and the U.K. has veto power without any of the responsibility that comes with it.
Ayrault and Steinmeier singled out three areas in which France and Germany would pursue a joint course of action: Security, a common border and immigration policy, and a fiscal union for euro area nations.
The document talks of giving the EU an ability to plan and conduct military operations through a "permanent civil-military chain of command." A standing EU maritime force and "EU-owned capabilities in other key areas" are proposed, as well as an EU intelligence-sharing framework. Given that France and Germany are derelict in fulfilling their commitment to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization to keep military spending above 2 percent of economic output, they show a surprising determination to create a costly parallel defense structure alongside NATO.
The two ministers propose giving Frontex, the EU border agency, a permanent staff and all the necessary equipment to serve as the common border police force. They also want to adopt common immigration and asylum laws, including a European Immigration Act "that clearly states what the legal options are when it comes to working in Europe, taking into account the different states of national labor markets in the EU."
Steinmeier and Ayrault said France and Germany would undertake a joint initiative to turn the euro area into a closer-knit union by harmonizing regulation, oversight and corporate tax schemes. The end goal is a fiscal union, which would start to "support investment in the member states most severely hit by the crisis" by 2018. The ministers propose that the Eurogroup -- currently a conclave of euro area finance ministers that develops policy decisions -- gets a full-time president who would be accountable to a special parliamentary body, comprised of European parliament and national parliament members.
All told, this amounts to a superstate with a kind of elected parliament and a government with a broad economic and security mandate. At a time of unity erosion, this doesn't sound like a realistic way to proceed -- except the proposal stresses that dissenters will be able to opt out of these state-building efforts.
On a common refugee policy, the statement says, that "if necessary, Germany and France stand ready to proceed on this matter with a group of like-minded partners." And as far as a fiscal union goes, the two countries are willing to start with bilateral agreements to set an example for others.
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-27/the-u-k-doesn-t-have-a-brexit-plan-but-the-eu-does
An entirely predictable bullet dodged there. I think the remain voters should form an orderly queue and pay homage to the 17 million who save us from being subsumed into a (not so) Superstate.
Your welcome
studio150
Well-known member
The three days since the vote have been enough for Jean-Marc Ayrault and Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the foreign ministers of France and Germany, to come up with a nine-page document proposing a post-Brexit path for the EU. Clearly, there was more contingency planning in Paris and Frankfurt than in London ahead of the U.K. decision.
The two-speed response in the U.K. and in Europe may reflect the relative weakness of the EU's position and the relative strength of the British one. Until the U.K. triggers Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty to begin the formal exit process, the EU is a lame structure: Many of its decisions require the consent of all members, and the U.K. has veto power without any of the responsibility that comes with it.
Ayrault and Steinmeier singled out three areas in which France and Germany would pursue a joint course of action: Security, a common border and immigration policy, and a fiscal union for euro area nations.
The document talks of giving the EU an ability to plan and conduct military operations through a "permanent civil-military chain of command." A standing EU maritime force and "EU-owned capabilities in other key areas" are proposed, as well as an EU intelligence-sharing framework. Given that France and Germany are derelict in fulfilling their commitment to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization to keep military spending above 2 percent of economic output, they show a surprising determination to create a costly parallel defense structure alongside NATO.
The two ministers propose giving Frontex, the EU border agency, a permanent staff and all the necessary equipment to serve as the common border police force. They also want to adopt common immigration and asylum laws, including a European Immigration Act "that clearly states what the legal options are when it comes to working in Europe, taking into account the different states of national labor markets in the EU."
Steinmeier and Ayrault said France and Germany would undertake a joint initiative to turn the euro area into a closer-knit union by harmonizing regulation, oversight and corporate tax schemes. The end goal is a fiscal union, which would start to "support investment in the member states most severely hit by the crisis" by 2018. The ministers propose that the Eurogroup -- currently a conclave of euro area finance ministers that develops policy decisions -- gets a full-time president who would be accountable to a special parliamentary body, comprised of European parliament and national parliament members.
All told, this amounts to a superstate with a kind of elected parliament and a government with a broad economic and security mandate. At a time of unity erosion, this doesn't sound like a realistic way to proceed -- except the proposal stresses that dissenters will be able to opt out of these state-building efforts.
On a common refugee policy, the statement says, that "if necessary, Germany and France stand ready to proceed on this matter with a group of like-minded partners." And as far as a fiscal union goes, the two countries are willing to start with bilateral agreements to set an example for others.
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-27/the-u-k-doesn-t-have-a-brexit-plan-but-the-eu-does
An entirely predictable bullet dodged there. I think the remain voters should form an orderly queue and pay homage to the 17 million who save us from being subsumed into a (not so) Superstate.
Your welcome
These are of course just proposals and not EU policy currently.
If this is put forward, it will be interesting to see which of the 27 reject all or part of the proposals immediately as red line issues, and which are willing to go along with these proposals. Given the discussion required on the proposals both nationally and at the EU level if they do proceed it will take many years to become law.
I have doubts that many countries are willing to just become a region within the country of Europe and effectively lose their national status.
However it would make the Euros a bit dull given the qualifiers could be something like;
Europe, England, Russia, Switzerland, Albania and Turkey
But on a brighter note it would shorten the Eurovision contest by about 4 hours.
Lyndhurst 14
Well-known member
- Jan 16, 2008
- 5,131
Lots of Brits living in the States are cashing in on the low pound and transferring money back to the UK - so much so that most of the exchanges have imposed limits on the amount that can be transferred. On the flip side one of my mates was going to buy an apartment in New York but has had to cancel as the amount he would transfer from the UK would be worth about 10% less at the minute. Also getting fed up with my American colleagues saying we can no longer bash the Yanks if they do elect Trump after what we did over Brexit.
The three days since the vote have been enough for Jean-Marc Ayrault and Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the foreign ministers of France and Germany, to come up with a nine-page document proposing a post-Brexit path for the EU. Clearly, there was more contingency planning in Paris and Frankfurt than in London ahead of the U.K. decision.
The two-speed response in the U.K. and in Europe may reflect the relative weakness of the EU's position and the relative strength of the British one. Until the U.K. triggers Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty to begin the formal exit process, the EU is a lame structure: Many of its decisions require the consent of all members, and the U.K. has veto power without any of the responsibility that comes with it.
Ayrault and Steinmeier singled out three areas in which France and Germany would pursue a joint course of action: Security, a common border and immigration policy, and a fiscal union for euro area nations.
The document talks of giving the EU an ability to plan and conduct military operations through a "permanent civil-military chain of command." A standing EU maritime force and "EU-owned capabilities in other key areas" are proposed, as well as an EU intelligence-sharing framework. Given that France and Germany are derelict in fulfilling their commitment to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization to keep military spending above 2 percent of economic output, they show a surprising determination to create a costly parallel defense structure alongside NATO.
The two ministers propose giving Frontex, the EU border agency, a permanent staff and all the necessary equipment to serve as the common border police force. They also want to adopt common immigration and asylum laws, including a European Immigration Act "that clearly states what the legal options are when it comes to working in Europe, taking into account the different states of national labor markets in the EU."
Steinmeier and Ayrault said France and Germany would undertake a joint initiative to turn the euro area into a closer-knit union by harmonizing regulation, oversight and corporate tax schemes. The end goal is a fiscal union, which would start to "support investment in the member states most severely hit by the crisis" by 2018. The ministers propose that the Eurogroup -- currently a conclave of euro area finance ministers that develops policy decisions -- gets a full-time president who would be accountable to a special parliamentary body, comprised of European parliament and national parliament members.
All told, this amounts to a superstate with a kind of elected parliament and a government with a broad economic and security mandate. At a time of unity erosion, this doesn't sound like a realistic way to proceed -- except the proposal stresses that dissenters will be able to opt out of these state-building efforts.
On a common refugee policy, the statement says, that "if necessary, Germany and France stand ready to proceed on this matter with a group of like-minded partners." And as far as a fiscal union goes, the two countries are willing to start with bilateral agreements to set an example for others.
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-27/the-u-k-doesn-t-have-a-brexit-plan-but-the-eu-does
An entirely predictable bullet dodged there. I think the remain voters should form an orderly queue and pay homage to the 17 million who save us from being subsumed into a (not so) Superstate.
Your welcome
See below
Just as relevant is the fact that inside the EU we would have the power to veto these proposals, killing them stone dead. Outside we are unable to do so. As stated plenty of times on this thread is it also the current position of the EU that we have no right to a trade deal without a freedom of movement deal.
In other words the EU could create a super state border force and almost unlimited immigration policy to which our choices would be a) sign up to in order to maintain trade deals or b) trust said EU border force to protect the Channel Tunnel for us when we are no longer involved with them in any way.
All without the power to shape or veto that law. I think I'll pass on thanking Leavers for now.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Yes they are just proposals but when they are made by the two most influential members of the EU, the biggest net contributors (post Brexit) who are at the heart of the EU project for ever closer union then they carry more weight. I think it also shows how voting remain was never really about voting for the comfort of the status quo or for reforming the EU in a direction more to our liking. This is just the next step on the path to ever closer union.
It will be interesting to see who signs up to this accelerated integration and how countries react to the take it or leave it nature of the content .. (Poland not happy) Germany and France are leading the way, the message to the rest seems to be keep up or step aside.
Unfortunately they would all still turn up much like the UK home nations despite being in one union so no respite there then
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
We may have been able to block some of them but matters that just effect the Eurozone are outside our remit (no veto) plus many of these proposals are only bi lateral Franco German. This is clearly the direction they want to head in. Our ongoing membership may have slowed the pace but we would have been stuck with our second tier membership helping to pay for a club that was heading in a direction we didn't like … yay. Sounds familiar.
The EU current (pre negotiating) position is that if we want continued free access (the same as now) to the single market then we must accept free movement. Virtually every country in the world trades with the EU and has some level of access to the single market there is much room for a mutually beneficial compromise to be decided during negotiations.
Yes we will be impacted by their decisions just like we are now as in being outside the Eurozone but having to help pay for bailouts. This happened directly in the past and after supposed assurances by more creative means (out of general contingency funds) in the future (if we had voted remain). Plus of course increasing EU migration from failing Eurozone economies. We are also outside schengen but that still means people are free to travel across a border free Europe causing problems at the Tunnel crossing.The border arrangements are unchanged with our officials processing people on the French side this will stay in place according to the French government.
The only real difference re borders post Brexit will be having an increased ability to control EU migration which all serious contenders in the Leadership contest have signed up to.
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
Border controls with The Republic of Ireland will have to put in place though. That makes a big difference to life in Northern Ireland. I suspect some people wont be happy with it. If we don't adopt the Norway EEA model and impose restrictions on full free movement and there will have to be whether The Republic of Ireland is in Schengen or not surely?
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
I know we already had a bi lateral free movement agreement with the Ireland which pre dates the Eu but yes some new arrangements will have to put in place.
Apparently Ireland isn't in Schengen
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
I know we already had a bi lateral free movement agreement with the Ireland which pre dates the Eu but yes some new arrangements will have to put in place.
Apparently Ireland isn't in Schengen
The Republic of Ireland isn't in Schengen, but it is in The EEA and the common travel area, which pre-dates the EU, as you say. The Irish Government seem convinced it will have to change. If we are to start restricting EU migration, we will need to have border controls on the ground in Northern Ireland. It's a 310 mile border.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Yes I was referring to the Common travel area agreement which I assume would remain in place as a bilateral agreement.
I don't think Ireland could realistically be used as a non Irish Eu national illegal migration route so this is unlikely to be a major problem. Someone needs to fly or board a boat to get to Ireland then cross the border then fly/ board another boat to get to the UK mainland. Passport checks already carried out for air movement so widening this to seaborn travel would not be a great additional problem (might already happen?).
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
The land border between Northern Ireland and The Republic of Ireland will need to be secured and checks put in place if restrictions on EU immigration are put in place in the future. Northern Ireland is part of The United Kingdom which would be outside The EEA, The Republic of Ireland will be part of The EEA. It has been openly mentioned in The Republic of Ireland that the future of the common travel area is in doubt and as they will be the only EU country outside of Schengen post Brexit, other than Romania and Bulgaria who are joining. Becoming part of Schengen post Brexit has been mentioned there.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Yes but the point is there has been no great flow of EU migration to Northern Ireland while we have been members signed up to free movement. People want to get to the UK mainland which would be extremely difficult for the reasons I previously mentioned.
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
There aren't full passport/immigration checks from travelling from Northern Ireland to The British mainland at present, which you seem to indicate there will need to be, anymore than there are from flying from Gatwick to Edinburgh. We are the same country. There are no border checks on the land border with The Irish Republic at present. If there is a lot of people in Northern Ireland won't be particularly happy. It wont be pretty if they are.
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http://news.sky.com/story/1720169/easyjet-opens-talks-over-post-brexit-hq-move
Hmm I wonder how much of this is true?
Hmm I wonder how much of this is true?
Guy Crouchback
New member
- Jun 20, 2012
- 665
Not only EasyJet but also Vodafone and many other companies are moving their HQs to mainland Europe.
The fight for the best parts of the English economic "corpse" has already started. Frankfurt? Paris? Dublin? Where to go for the big money now? Hollande is throwing all his weight behind Paris, Frankfurt is the natural successor, Dublin would be more practical but even Luxembourg has some hopes.
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/un...paris-wer-wird-das-neue-london-a-1100689.html
It's not only about the money, it's about 350.000 jobs... for a start.
Surely, and I mean SURELY, the "Leave" voters were aware of the inevitable outcome of their vote, and fully consciously accepted it?
SK1NT
Well-known member
2mins of audio... a great explanation of the brexit manipulation
http://www.lbc.co.uk/james-obriens-blistering-take-on-crisis-in-british-politics--133148
and if you want to hear a heart breaking call about a German lady and how things have changed for her since brexit... listen to the audio directly after
(The audio after is Video Sobbing German Woman's Call Stops James O'Brien In His Tracks )
Both Audios well worth a listen.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/james-obriens-blistering-take-on-crisis-in-british-politics--133148
and if you want to hear a heart breaking call about a German lady and how things have changed for her since brexit... listen to the audio directly after
(The audio after is Video Sobbing German Woman's Call Stops James O'Brien In His Tracks )
Both Audios well worth a listen.