[Politics] Brexit

[Is it PotG?]

Dunno, but first priority is get the Tories out, first step damage limitation. We're in a bad place

Yup, Starmer IN.

 

[nicko31]

Yup, Starmer IN.

In with LD coalition preferred. Force through electoral reform....

 

[chickens]

Labour may decide to do the right thing once they're in. Pointless saying so now, or all of the charlatans, jackasses and 'patriots' will be leaping about, spouting their drivel once again, and votes will be lost.

I said may. It is too early yet to tell whether Starmer has a vision and some bottle, and has not been brainwashed by all the claptrap.

My fear, put simply, is that they won’t. Recent electoral history suggests that the British public are very slow to forgive and forget those who don’t have the press with them and act against manifesto promises.

The Conservative Party seems largely immune to this, the press seem to suffer a kind of collective amnesia and any holding to account is cursory and not linked to other instances of misbehaviour.

Labour will rightly fear a press stoked public backlash if their move is contrary to their manifesto, despite being in a customs union being absolutely the right thing to do. It’s only the incompetence of this Conservative Party that caused us to leave the EU without a customs union deal in the first place.

 

[Titanic]

Brexit: Mistakes were made on all sides, says Leo Varadkar

The Irish prime minister says perhaps the Northern Ireland protocol is a "little bit too strict".

www.bbc.co.uk

Maybe a small chink of light for NI progress? Then again...

Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar has said mistakes were made on all sides in the way Brexit was negotiated.
Mr Varadkar said he would be "flexible and reasonable" when attempting to solve issues with the Northern Ireland protocol.
He admitted that "perhaps" the treaty was a "little bit too strict" and that the European Union was willing to make compromises.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

My fear, put simply, is that they won’t. Recent electoral history suggests that the British public are very slow to forgive and forget those who don’t have the press with them and act against manifesto promises.

The Conservative Party seems largely immune to this, the press seem to suffer a kind of collective amnesia and any holding to account is cursory and not linked to other instances of misbehaviour.

Labour will rightly fear a press stoked public backlash if their move is contrary to their manifesto, despite being in a customs union being absolutely the right thing to do. It’s only the incompetence of this Conservative Party that caused us to leave the EU without a customs union deal in the first place.

The backlash won't be a backlash. There are many people who are implacably opposed to socialism and any excuse will set them off. The attack will be more like a front-lash, and any excuse will do. But average punters don't get particularly agitated if a government 'breaks an election promise'. If labour raise any tax at any time the right wing press and the tory jackasses will trot out the mantra that 'labour are the party of tax increseases and the conservatives are the party of low taxes' even though this is a pathetic lie. Not sure this will have much traction in this day and age, though. Sunak continues to talk as if Corbyn is still labour leader. Not sure the general public is taking much notice of Sunak, really. What would do for labour would be something that would guarantee they would be booted our after one term. Rejoining the EU without a referendum, on adverse terms, for example. And that won't happen....

However none of this is my concern. Labour can keep its powder dry on any issue (like Thatcher did with the first wave of privatizations) by simply not spelling much out in the manifesto. The strategy isn't to avoid being accused of lying in the manifesto. It is simply to avoid a deluge of mockery and criticism (of the sort aimed at Corbyn - worse in fact). I really can't see labour ruling out doing the right thing over trade and other issues with Europe then 'going against the manifesto' later. As I said my main concern is that Labour does nothing to fix the mess.

 

[nicko31]

2016-2020 the flat lining, then Johnson's terrible deal.

Now they want the nurses to pay for their ideology

 

[Mo Gosfield]

It doesn't matter who gets in, they make little or no difference. They skirt round the edges of major issues, they juggle a bit, tinker a bit and do whatever they can to raise us much as they can ( some openly, some stealthily ) to keep the public coffers filled to a certain level.
If the next administration started by addressing the issue of social housing and how to reinvigorate British industry ( rather than bleeding it dry ) then I will sit up and take notice. Until then, years of experience have taught me to expect very little.

 

[nicko31]

It doesn't matter who gets in, they make little or no difference. They skirt round the edges of major issues, they juggle a bit, tinker a bit and do whatever they can to raise us much as they can ( some openly, some stealthily ) to keep the public coffers filled to a certain level.
If the next administration started by addressing the issue of social housing and how to reinvigorate British industry ( rather than bleeding it dry ) then I will sit up and take notice. Until then, years of experience have taught me to expect very little.

Yes they're all as bad as each other, aren't they?

 

[Baldseagull]

It doesn't matter who gets in, they make little or no difference. They skirt round the edges of major issues, they juggle a bit, tinker a bit and do whatever they can to raise us much as they can ( some openly, some stealthily ) to keep the public coffers filled to a certain level.
If the next administration started by addressing the issue of social housing and how to reinvigorate British industry ( rather than bleeding it dry ) then I will sit up and take notice. Until then, years of experience have taught me to expect very little.

Maybe there is no truly great option, but there are certainly less bad options. As for being taxed, if it is being spent on maintaining or improving services, most of us don't mind, it's when it disappears through either incompetence, fraud, or deliberate wastefulness so that privatisation looks attractive that I begrudge the take.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yes they're all as bad as each other, aren't they?

To be fair, when you've spent years on NSC constantly campaigning for Brexit and then campaigning for the Johnson cabal to 'Get it Done' what other defence could you post on the Brexit thread other than a bit of whataboutism

 

[chickens]

The backlash won't be a backlash. There are many people who are implacably opposed to socialism and any excuse will set them off. The attack will be more like a front-lash, and any excuse will do. But average punters don't get particularly agitated if a government 'breaks an election promise'. If labour raise any tax at any time the right wing press and the tory jackasses will trot out the mantra that 'labour are the party of tax increseases and the conservatives are the party of low taxes' even though this is a pathetic lie. Not sure this will have much traction in this day and age, though. Sunak continues to talk as if Corbyn is still labour leader. Not sure the general public is taking much notice of Sunak, really. What would do for labour would be something that would guarantee they would be booted our after one term. Rejoining the EU without a referendum, on adverse terms, for example. And that won't happen....

However none of this is my concern. Labour can keep its powder dry on any issue (like Thatcher did with the first wave of privatizations) by simply not spelling much out in the manifesto. The strategy isn't to avoid being accused of lying in the manifesto. It is simply to avoid a deluge of mockery and criticism (of the sort aimed at Corbyn - worse in fact). I really can't see labour ruling out doing the right thing over trade and other issues with Europe then 'going against the manifesto' later. As I said my main concern is that Labour does nothing to fix the mess.

I fear that we are violently agreeing with each other. At least on our main concern.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I fear that we are violently agreeing with each other. At least on our main concern.

Yes, we are. You're not @Guinness Boy in disguise, are you?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Brexit: Mistakes were made on all sides, says Leo Varadkar

The Irish prime minister says perhaps the Northern Ireland protocol is a "little bit too strict".

www.bbc.co.uk

Maybe a small chink of light for NI progress? Then again...

Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar has said mistakes were made on all sides in the way Brexit was negotiated.
Mr Varadkar said he would be "flexible and reasonable" when attempting to solve issues with the Northern Ireland protocol.
He admitted that "perhaps" the treaty was a "little bit too strict" and that the European Union was willing to make compromises.

Interestingly, I am hearing the same.

What I'm struggling with though is with the EU running a single market, how can they make Import controls, veterinary checks, Tax, VAT, ROI etc for goods into into that market less onerous at one part of their borders with one 3rd party country, without compromising all the other borders

Any ideas ?

 

[Titanic]

Interestingly, I am hearing the same.

What I'm struggling with though is with the EU running a single market, how can they make Import controls, veterinary checks, Tax, VAT, ROI etc for goods into into that market less onerous at one part of their borders with one 3rd party country, without compromising all the other borders

Any ideas ?

They make it up as they go along, to suit themselves.

They may well need something similar for Scotland in the not too distant future.

 

[WATFORD zero]

They make it up as they go along, to suit themselves.

They may well need something similar for Scotland in the not too distant future.

I agree, but I've yet to see a politician who can actually override basic and simple logic, no matter how many years they try, which is why we are where we are

 

[Springal]

 

[erkan]

Is that real...?

 

[Springal]

Is that real...?

Yes.

Brexit campaign broadcast: Vote Leave’s NHS warning

Out campaign repeats controversial £350m claim in prime-time TV spots.

www.politico.eu

 

[Binney on acid]

Still loads of negative rhetoric about Brexit. Have a little patience ! Give it another 200 years, whilst we strike up trade deals with third world dictatorships, and continue to tell our former European allies to go and do one. It's a small price to pay for regaining control. What could possibly go wrong ?

 

[nicko31]

Is that real...?

Of course. This wasn't even Farage's lot, this was Vote Leave. Essentially the Tories, those at the heart of the UK government since.

The silly people didn't even bother to secure their domain name...

Vote Leave Lied

voteleave.uk

Here's their site from 2016

Vote Leave

Every week we hand over £350 million to the EU. The equivalent of a brand new NHS hospital every seven days! EU immigration has put untold strain on public services. This will only get worse when Turkey, Albania, Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia join the EU. Vote Leave to spend OUR money on OUR...

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