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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081






Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,831
Hove
cunning fergus said:
An EU wide free labour market is a Tory wet dream because it evidently benefits employers who have access to a largely limitless pool of labour. There is no jam for the workers, they will just have to accept lower conditions and protections.
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The right of the Tory party's wet dream is an EU wide free labour market (as part of any post EU membership agreement) without having to adhere to agreed EU wide legislation protecting workers rights, equality, anti discrimination. This government already wanted to get rid of the minimum wage threshold. If we continue to have Tory governments, that is no way on earth leaving the EU is going to protect or make it better for lower paid workers in this country.

The EU model of free movement is likely to remain regardless of our being in or out of the EU - Norway and Switzerland both have higher levels of EU immigration than the UK - and they're not even in the EU!
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,747
Bold Seagull said:
The right of the Tory party's wet dream is an EU wide free labour market (as part of any post EU membership agreement) without having to adhere to agreed EU wide legislation protecting workers rights, equality, anti discrimination. This government already wanted to get rid of the minimum wage threshold. If we continue to have Tory governments, that is no way on earth leaving the EU is going to protect or make it better for lower paid workers in this country.

The EU model of free movement is likely to remain regardless of our being in or out of the EU - Norway and Switzerland both have higher levels of EU immigration than the UK - and they're not even in the EU!
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Utter nonsense and an insult to the generations of workers that fought for workers rights, equality etc. years before the EU existed.

There are plenty of examples of where this country has better worker protection than EU law, and plenty of examples where other EU countries have better worker protection than us.

What has happened to workers rights in Spain, Greece, Portugal and Italy in recent years is no advertisement for an socially progressive EU, on the contrary it advocated a bonfire of workers rights and austerity to boot.

Only this week workers rioted in Paris, another protest against reforms that will shred French workers rights, all with the encouragement of the EU to help make France more competitive and employee friendly.

If you think the EU is a bulwark against global capitalism you are a fool...........the likes of Goldman Sachs are no friend of the workers.
 




Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,831
Hove
cunning fergus said:
Utter nonsense and an insult to the generations of workers that fought for workers rights, equality etc. years before the EU existed.

There are plenty of examples of where this country has better worker protection than EU law, and plenty of examples where other EU countries have better worker protection than us.

What has happened to workers rights in Spain, Greece, Portugal and Italy in recent years is no advertisement for an socially progressive EU, on the contrary it advocated a bonfire of workers rights and austerity to boot.

Only this week workers rioted in Paris, another protest against reforms that will shred French workers rights, all with the encouragement of the EU to help make France more competitive and employee friendly.

If you think the EU is a bulwark against global capitalism you are a fool...........the likes of Goldman Sachs are no friend of the workers.
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Miss the point, evade the other, suggest someone else is a fool. A typical post from you. I'm beginning to think you might be a politician!
 




C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,747
Bold Seagull said:
Miss the point, evade the other, suggest someone else is a fool. A typical post from you. I'm beginning to think you might be a politician!
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That's weak, even by your normal weak standards.

You say that the EU protects workers rights, I challenge that on basis that a) British workers fought for protection before the EU, and b) the EU is pissing all over workers in parts of the EU......currently in France.

You can't dispute either point, so provide a glib response.......that's cool by me.

But what I don't understand with you and others, is why you persist with the belief that the EU is not a capitalist dream........you clearly want to remain in the EU, along with Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and Sir Philip Green.

They really don't give a flying fvck about workers rights or socialist principles such as common ownership.........nor does the EU. You have fully embraced the EU on this basis, so why be coy about it.........c'mon you Tory shill, let it out. VOTE IN, VOTE TORY.
 


Jim in the West

Jim in the West

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 13, 2003
4,581
Way out West
cunning fergus said:
On the contrary I get the point, you are deflecting the overwhelming support of the establishment who want us to vote remain, with a smaller group that has some establishment figures and saying they are the same.

That is nonsense, there is a very clear narrative on this debate, it really could not be clearer......this thread is dripping with posts about how our betters must know best, the leave campaign is bereft of anything close to having a credible alternative.

I dare say that remain has anti establishment figures, but guess what......they are siding with them. There is irony.

As for experts I am not going to be told what to do by the likes of Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and Sir Philip Green.

You don't need to have a Doctorate in economic theory to know that they are untrustworthy lying Tory b@stards. You can swallow their lies.......plenty on here evidently have.
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Ha ha - your arguments are becoming a little weak now. Firstly wrongly attributing the "establishment", and now seeking to characterise Sir Philip Green as an "expert". Chairman Mao would be proud of you. If they win, Gove, Boris and Farage will be leading a new cultural revolution where knowledge, education and culture will be hounded out, and replaced with populist fervour and xenophobia. The Sun will be required reading for the masses, and anyone caught reading the classics will be sent to the countryside for "re-education". I jest, of course, but the contempt the Brexit camp has for knowledge and expertise is thoroughly depressing.
 






larus

larus

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
6,580
In the land of hope and expectation....
Jim in the West said:
Ha ha - your arguments are becoming a little weak now. Firstly wrongly attributing the "establishment", and now seeking to characterise Sir Philip Green as an "expert". Chairman Mao would be proud of you. If they win, Gove, Boris and Farage will be leading a new cultural revolution where knowledge, education and culture will be hounded out, and replaced with populist fervour and xenophobia. The Sun will be required reading for the masses, and anyone caught reading the classics will be sent to the countryside for "re-education". I jest, of course, but the contempt the Brexit camp has for knowledge and expertise is thoroughly depressing.
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If you cannot see that the establishment wants REMAIN then there is no point trying to reason with you.

UK government (over 400 MPs)
ECB
BoE
CBI
IMF
IFS
Obama
etc.

So, please explain what is the establishment on the BREXIT side compared to this?
 


larus

larus

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
6,580
In the land of hope and expectation....
I've been working in Derbyshier for the last week or so, and everywhere I go I see LEAVE posters. Everyone that I've spoken to is voting LEAVE - apart from one woman who said that she thought it would involve extra paperwork for her so she was voting Remain.

This is a manufacturing area, and the people I spoke to were office and factory workers, from the FD to the guy in stores. Immigration and the loss of democracy were the biggest concerns. The lies/scare stories from remain were ridiculed.

Yes, it's anecdotal, but the FD said he was getting more correspondence from banks etc. which was talking about BREXIT and the increased risks. He said he thought that they knew they'd lost to BREXIT.
 


5

5ways

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2012
2,217
Potentially big:

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T

The Rivet

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2011
4,512
Driving along the seafront from Brighton to Worthing today and decided to be a danger on the road looking for signs. Honestly didn't see 1 remain but plenty of vote leave. Means what in the grand scheme of things for this region I am not trying to predict. Sompting already voted in UKIP control. Will be interesting indeed.
 










Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
pb21 said:
I don't think anyone has said any of the things you have mentioned, in those stark black and white terms.

The EU has helped facilitated many of those things though, and we are all better off for that.

Its not black and white, like you are saying other people are saying.
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You have your opinion and I have mine.Re-writing history in subtle shades of grey is still re-writing history!
 












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