[Politics] Brexit

[Lincoln Imp]

So actually trump is right...under the back stop, we are not allowed to trade with anyone other than the EU due to customs regs etc.

I never thought I would ever say that! I feel dirty.

I believe we can trade with anyone we like but we wouldn't be able to cut a unilateral trading deal

 

[Publius Ovidius]

A Brexiteer in the present cabinet you'd think - Javid, Gove or the nakedly ambitious Hunt.

Hunt! He seems to be distancing himself from May..... he seems the lesser evil than Gove.

 

[Gwylan]

A Brexiteer in the present cabinet you'd think - Javid, Gove or the nakedly ambitious Hunt.

Javid and Hunt both voted Remain - although they're more pragmatists than EU fanatics. Gove is widely mistrusted by MPs and, by the public. I can't see anybody falling over themselves to take over from May - they know it's a poisoned chalice. If they want a Brexiteer, my bet would be Mordaunt but it's not going to be easy for a new leader (to say the least).

 

[Pavilionaire]

Or new primary legislation, with cross party support, to join EFTA/EEA and customs union.

I think Trump's comments make this less likely.

If you want to have a free trade deal with the US you have to be unencumbered by EU regulations, and clearly if we're in EFTA/EEA and customs union that won't be the case.

Trump's aggressive language about putting America first is a clear indication if he ever did a deal with the UK he's not that fussed about whether or not the deal is good for the UK, only that it is great for the USA.

Similarly, if the UK's ties to the EU are a problem for the USA then it's likely other potential trading partners will have those same concerns too.

This whole process has made it clear you're either in the EU negotiating with the world, or you're out of it trying to make your own deals - you cannot have both, and this is why May's Deal is unworkable.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

I believe we can trade with anyone we like but we wouldn't be able to cut a unilateral trading deal

Guy on the news just said that is one of the untold bits of the agreement as just how it does lock us in if the backstop is invoked and the legal steps we would have to take to evennset up the smallest trade deal.

 

[pb21]

So actually trump is right...under the back stop, we are not allowed to trade with anyone other than the EU due to customs regs etc.

I never thought I would ever say that! I feel dirty.

This is partly why this deal should be rejected by parliament.

I read something yesterday/this morning that May has said it is in the EU’s interest to secure a future deal as soon as possible, although I didn’t see any qualification of this statement. As far as I understand there is no incentive for this; more the opposite. The EU will have no incentive to accept something that doesn’t suit them, whereas we will. This fact is going to scupper the future deal with the EU and other nations, such as the US, even more so than just leaving the EU.

Or this deal is the best we can get and is simply the unescapable cost of leaving the EU, in which case the deal should be rejected. Government’s primary duty is to protect its people and I would say that includes protecting its people from itself.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Because we, you, I and the rest of the nation already knew what being in was like, hence the debate in the first place, some wanted or were prepared to accept the status quo, others, like yourself were not satisfied and demanded change. This is a perfectly acceptable stance to take but the issues were so widespread that out eventually won the day. The problem with that is that "out" had many many outcomes and landing zones, some were apparent before the vote and were warned about, others have become more and more apparent ever since the vote.

Now is the time for grown up thinking, we've had the arguments for leave and remain and have just been spinning in circles, I expect all UK politicians to have our nations best interests as first and foremost but sadly now this expectation is waning and I find myself becoming cynical to their ulterior motives. If you cannot trust elected politicians then where do we go from here?

Remain people have consistently spoke out against the possible/probable outcomes of a leave outcome, you say "project fear" but I believe it's project reality, even the Mogg has stated it is likely to be 50 years before any real benefit is likely to be felt and I did not hear, see or read that during the referendum campaign.

There is so much difficulty to overcome, negotiate and compromise and for what? To either go off a cliff edge without knowing if or even when things will maybe improve or accept the compromise deal which leaves us far worse off politically, financially and less united as a United Kingdom to satisfy a small majority of our country who either knew these outcomes were likely but found them acceptable or were uninformed and voted on misinformation and even those who felt they had nothing to lose either way and went for something different rather than the status quo, there are even some who voted leave who honestly believed that remain would win anyway and their vote would be a poke in the eye to the establishment or Tory and labour leadership etc etc.

To qualify this I am in the remain side, I have always been of the opinion that it's better the devil you know and there are so many different arguments that I and I expect a lot of people from both sides of the devide do not fully understand all the details or ultimately what is best for our country which is why we elect people who we would hope have our countries and our people's interests foremost, this brings me back to my second paragraph and so the circles continue.

I don't particularly want a second vote but how else can this impasse be negotiated ? I am beginning to see that Mays deal will not satisfy the majority on both sides, our politicians cannot agree on which way to go, their leaders are whipping them to toe their party lines which doesn't always satisfy their conscience and the only real outcome not seemingly wanted is a no deal outcome, so I find I am reluctantly in favour of a second vote with all we know now firmly debated on if no deal wins then then so be it, but an honest campaign with no mistruths, lies, or interference from vested interests allowed, let the people then decide on factual evidence without recriminations, a fantasy I know but I live in hope.

why was it not " grown up"to vote leave, typical we know better than you from the grizzlers
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Its entertaining watching leavers trying to save face.

something you're an expert at
regards
DR

 

[daveinplzen]

something you're an expert at
regards
DR

Not just me, all the remainers have seen examples of it recently. Thanks for your concern though.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Not just me, all the remainers have seen examples of it recently. Thanks for your concern though.

isn't it about time you sloped off this thread? , i'd cut you some slack Dave if you lived here but you don't, you and thumper are like two peas in a pod
regards
DR

 

[hans kraay fan club]

why was it not " grown up"to vote leave,
regards
DR

Have you missed the last two years, das?

 

[Two Professors]

Question..

Will Brexiteers be writing to letter of apology to Gina Miller for being giving them opportunity to vote down Theresa May's Brexit deal?

Shame she isn't a poster on here.Bet she didn't realise how much she has helped a 'No Deal' to arrive!

 

[Two Professors]

I think two profs may be employed by Bozza to make all NSC posters feel good about themselves (even Ppf). He can't be real, Shirley

Why bother posting?You never add anything,or post stuff you have promised.Just go back to your crayoning.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Have you missed the last two years, das?

might as well have
regards
DR

 

[Two Professors]

I've edited my question so you can understand it.

"I'd say that the Leave option you favour (ie - not the Norway option, Chequers, or May's current offering but something much 'harder') was almost certainly not supported by a majority of voters in 2016 and it surely isn't now. Do you claim otherwise?

The question was Leave or Remain,no options,no waffle,no but I thought.Just a straight either Leave or Remain.

Oh,and Morgan might want to mine your head for wood.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

might as well have
regards
DR

Indeed.

It's not like any of the warnings and pointers of catastrophic effects on the nation's future would make a blind bit of difference to a right-wing idealist head-banger, anyway.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The question was Leave or Remain,no options,no waffle,no but I thought.Just a straight either Leave or Remain.

So you are fully on board with May's LEAVE deal then. She'll be glad of your support.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Indeed.

It's not like any of the warnings and pointers of catastrophic effects on the nation's future would make a blind bit of difference to a right-wing idealist head-banger, anyway.

You mean project fear , give it a rest
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The question was Leave or Remain,no options,no waffle,no but I thought.Just a straight either Leave or Remain.

Oh,and Morgan might want to mine your head for wood.

yes Profs , it's quite clear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUsKWsPcRXE
regards
DR

 

[hans kraay fan club]

You mean project fear , give it a rest
regards
DR

I guess so, yes.

Honestly, if you are not afraid of the potential outcomes of this self-inflicted shitfest, then you are probably just blissfully ignorant. I'm a little jealous.