[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

No - I said you don't need to implement a physical border if you don't need to. If there are political reasons why, then a physical border (check points etc. as this seems to cause you to struggle with comprehension) is not required.

And you still have yet to reply to the FACT that the EU (according to you) need to implement checks but they have said that they won't. So what is it? Are you right or the EU?

I'll keep waiting for the usual deflection.

I have quoted you numerous times saying that we can implement WTO tariffs with no borders or customs

http://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?343854-BrExit-the-countdown-to-11PM-GMT-on-Friday-29th-of-March-2019&p=8582628&highlight=#post8582628

http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...f-March-2019&p=8582609&highlight=#post8582609

If you can find any quote where I said that Ireland would not need customs, please post it and I'm sure I would be mature enough to admit my mistake.

Good luck because you seem to be having problems remembering where your sources to verify your 'facts' are at the moment

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'm still waiting for an answer on this question. I try to answer your questions, but won't anymore until you do me the same courtesy.

And you still have yet to reply to the FACT that the EU (according to you) need to implement checks but they have said that they won't. So what is it? Are you right or the EU?

I'm not surprised you can't, sorry won't

Off to dinner - stay chilled

 

[pastafarian]

But you don't have to share and people the exiatance of the "80% of brexit paperwork is complete" claim?

The 80% is a well known and easily verifiable fact, have you not wondered why its just you questioning its validity?
Brighton and Hove Albion reached the FA cup final in 1983. Do you need a source to verify this information?

 

[pastafarian]

I am not going to answer someone who accuses me of being dishonest. If you cannot debate in a polite and good mannered way (nor do your own research) then I see no reason to waste my time on you.

But you are dishonest.
You have continued to repeat the lie that we have always been in control of our EU borders whilst being in the EU and signatories to EU freedom of movement protocols, protocols that limit the level of border controls that can be placed on EU citizens that otherwise exist and are in place on NON EU nationals.
I am not surprised you have now decided to flounce on the topic when you realise you are wrong,an incredibly poor excuse though its because you have been called dishonest,when the truth is you are clearly out of your depth. The victim card mentality is strong in you.
I have done much research on the topic, my preferred reading material on the subject is the articles in the treaties, EU directives and regulations and even the odd relevant ruling from The ECJ, all of which i have shared at sometime on this thread, the irony is not lost that your own level of research appears to be what you have been told on twitter.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Yes, of course there will be extra checks, but most customs paperwork is completed ports. I watched an interesting program a couple of weeks ago and they interviewed port workers at one of the Eastern docks and they said this whole saga about delays at the ports and gridlock is overplayed. Tariffs (taxes) are not collected at the docks and are a paperwork/accounting exercise. Regulatory alignment again has no impact at the docks.

Regarding food rotting, the other day I was eating some mini corns and mange toute (Rodney) and these came from Egypt and Kenya. So food from the EU will still get through fine. I accept that we may have to build additional facilities at or near Dover to handle the extra checks, but we don't have to have these in place for day one. We can choose to ignore these checks (which are for our benefit) for the time being.

I'm sorry, but you really don't know what you're talking about in regards to customs clearance and it's impact on logistics and you keep proving this with everything you post on it.

 

[Two Professors]

Because the UK will lose Free Movement after March 2019.

So does that mean you will have to show your passport,just like you do now?What a dreadful imposition!

 

[Two Professors]

An interesting if unlikely (in my view) hypothesis. You probably subscribe to this: The man who is not a socialist at 20 has no heart, but if he is still a socialist at 40 he has no head. - Aristide Briand (1862 - 1932) [French premier and former socialist]


I'm aware of the fallacy of confusing socialism with being a Remainer, but I suspect you'll get my drift.

Funnily enough,at 20 I was a convinced socialist,having already been made redundant by asset -stripping capitalists,but then I saw a bit more of the world and life and grew up.

 

[Two Professors]

Let’s hope so, as your pension might not stetch too far if prices go up further.

The State one,the Forces one,or my private one?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1036980193989144577[/tweet]

 

[pastafarian]

[tweet]1036980193989144577[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

View attachment 100310

Democracy keeps moving. If it stops it becomes autocracy.

 

[pastafarian]

Democracy keeps moving. If it stops it becomes autocracy.

Stop trying to stop it then. Respect the democratic vote, move on and put your energy into democratically rejoining after we have left.

 

[pastafarian]

I have looked and found no source, only a random statement with no data to back it up. Over to you...

What was the statement and who made it? How did you conclude the statement was "random" ?

 

[ManOfSussex]

Stop trying to stop it then. Respect the democratic vote, move on and put your energy into democratically rejoining after we have left.

Perhaps you should put your energy into telling The GMB Union and it's members that? I'm sure they'd love to hear from someone like you pasta.

Although GMB obviously backed remain in 2016, an awful lot of GMB's working class members would have voted for Brexit in 2016, wouldn't they. It seems awfully strange their union would go against their members wishes like this. Their statement says they've spoken to thousands of their members on this issue and haven't taken the decision lightly too. Do you think they might have a different opinion on things now to 2 years ago, or should they just be "blindly left to trust hard right Tories like Dominic Raab or Jacob Rees-Mogg in the far-fetched belief they will do what is right for us all" like you do?

Interesting read the statement in full though. It's difficult to really argue against any of their concerns:

The Government is presiding over Brexit chaos. The people must decide where we go next.

In 2016, GMB union members, like the country, were divided on Brexit. Many people were sick of the status quo, and thought a vote to leave would bring the change they so desperately wanted. Others thought, on balance – despite some of the European Union’s imperfections - that we were still were better off in. By and large our 620,000 members are reflective of the public.

GMB campaigned to remain, but when the referendum result was announced in June 2016, we accepted the decision of the people. I have been clear that a re-run of that referendum would be misguided, and risk alienating swathes of the public who have already made their decision and believe that political elites are not listening.

But that doesn’t mean the public should be shut out of the entire process, blindly left to trust hard right Tories like Dominic Raab or Jacob Rees-Mogg in the far-fetched belief they will do what is right for us all. To working people across the country, how we leave the European Union is as important as the decision to do so in the first place.

The people voted for Brexit, and it is again with the people that approval of the final deal should rest. That is why GMB is today calling for a public vote on the final deal.

When people voted to ‘take back control’ – a slogan that, while disingenuous, perfectly tapped into the mood of many frustrated voters – they did not vote for fewer rights, for economic chaos or for greater insecurity. And we cannot forget the 48% of those who voted to remain as members of the European Union.

The Tories have spent two years fighting with each other instead of putting forward a vision which the majority of people could sign up to.

Nothing has been done to address the issues that pushed the electorate to leave in the first place. The referendum vote wasn’t just about the European Union – it was about austerity, our creaking public services under strain from continued cost-cutting with the blame pinned on immigration, it was about insecurity and undercutting of rights and wages and a lack of opportunity for working class people, their kids and grandkids.

Ever since the referendum in 2016, GMB has repeatedly raised the industrial issues and practical concerns relating to our members’ jobs, rights and the Brexit process. Ministers have simply refused to listen.

We speak to employers who have been told virtually nothing about plans for next March – and are seriously worried about the future for their staff and their businesses.

The only jobs the Tories seem bothered about are their own. If they are given a blank cheque, I have no faith that their Brexit deal will be good for working people and communities, for our kids and grandkids. In fact, it increasingly looks the opposite. This government needs to know that they have to come back and face the music, and if the public is not happy, they must listen and go back to the negotiating table.

GMB has not come to this decision lightly. We have spoken to thousands of our members and asked their views on who should have the final say on Brexit. Across every region, members believe that the power should rest in the hands of the people, there is just too much at stake.

As trade unionists, when we negotiate a pay deal with an employer, we go back to our members and ask them if they’re happy with it. Everyone gets to decide whether they want to accept or reject it. The government need to take a leaf out of our book, and be led by the people.

Tim Roache is the General Secretary of the GMB union

 

[pastafarian]

Perhaps you should put your energy into telling The GMB Union and it's members that? I'm sure they'd love to hear from someone like you pasta.

Although GMB obviously backed remain in 2016, an awful lot of GMB's working class members would have voted for Brexit in 2016, wouldn't they. It seems awfully strange their union would go against their members wishes like this. Their statement says they've spoken to thousands of their members on this issue and haven't taken the decision lightly too. Do you think they might have a different opinion on things now to 2 years ago, or should they just be "blindly left to trust hard right Tories like Dominic Raab or Jacob Rees-Mogg in the far-fetched belief they will do what is right for us all" like you do?

Interesting read the statement in full though. It's difficult to really argue against any of their concerns:

Good to see they respect the vote to leave and are committed to leaving and just want a public decision on how we leave.

“how we leave the European Union is as important as the decision to do so in the first place.
The people voted for Brexit, and it is again with the people that approval of the final deal should rest. That is why GMB is today calling for a public vote on the final deal.”

This could be their ballot



Those amongst the peoples vote who don’t respect the vote to leave and want an option to stay IN wont be happy at all. Perhaps they should all get together and decide to agree with each other first.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The State one,the Forces one,or my private one?

I’m glad I finally flushed this out of you. You are a grade a, 100%, 24 carat bullshitter. If you want to lie, you need a good memory.

 

[Butch Willykins]

It had no data to back it up, so it was just pulled out of nowhere. You can not trust "facts" just pulled out of nowhere no matter who says them.

Well that took all of 2 secs to find on google.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/10/eu-michel-barnier-brexit-deal-four-fifths-agreed

 

[ManOfSussex]

Good to see they respect the vote to leave and are committed to leaving and just want a public decision on how we leave.

“how we leave the European Union is as important as the decision to do so in the first place.
The people voted for Brexit, and it is again with the people that approval of the final deal should rest. That is why GMB is today calling for a public vote on the final deal.”

This could be their ballot

View attachment 100326

Those amongst the peoples vote who don’t respect the vote to leave and want an option to stay IN wont be happy at all. Perhaps they should all get together and decide to agree with each other first.

It wouldn't be their preferred ballot because you decided to ignore the bit in their statement that said: "This government needs to know that they have to come back and face the music, and if the public is not happy, they must listen and go back to the negotiating table."

 

[Two Professors]

I’m glad I finally flushed this out of you. You are a grade a, 100%, 24 carat bullshitter. If you want to lie, you need a good memory.

I'm sure you are aware by now that your opinion of me means less than a gnat's fart and as you appear to be having another of your episodes an apology by PM tomorrow will save you any further embarassment.

 

[pastafarian]

It wouldn't be their preferred ballot because you decided to ignore the bit in their statement that said: "This government needs to know that they have to come back and face the music, and if the public is not happy, they must listen and go back to the negotiating table."

Lol
I didn’t “ignore” it. I simply laughed and gave it the attention it deserved.
Good to see though they are not proposing a remain option at all................all roads lead to Leave.

I heard someone from the peoples vote recently explain how the final decision must be taken out of the hands of MP`s and decided by the people.
Have any of you second referendumers factored in Gina Miller? She will go batshit crazy if parliament is taken out the loop. She will have any vote up in front of the courts, that delay will ensure the March deadline expires and no time for anything except all the treaties cease to apply and we are OUT.
How do you think MP`s will react to having a vote on the deal, promised to them in legislation being stripped away from them.
Also if the more rabid remoaners are right that the initial vote was not the will of the people, will any decision under the peoples vote this time be the will of the people or will it again not really be the will of the people.