[Politics] Brexit

[Herr Tubthumper]

Let the UK distribute its money on its own terms to its own people and if they fail then we can vote for someone else, this fixation that only Brussels can deliver appropriate decisions whilst the UK should be considered mostly hopeless, seems a bit odd to me.

Odd? Parts of the U.K. have had decade upon decade of neglect. But if the overlooked bürgers of Stoke think money will suddenly start pouring into their city they have another thing coming. I hope you stick to your post and allow them a vote to rejoin the EU.

 

[Baldseagull]

Saying that we will accept, without condition, all laws made by the EU, as is required by membership, means we are not the ultimate arbiter of what laws we do or do not have.

We haven't been incorporating EU legislation into UK law, EU legislation is the law of the land in the UK, it doesn't need "incorporating".

But we are part of the EU, it is not like we have no say in what comes our way. Sometimes we take stuff on that the Government of the day would rather not, and sometimes we get things we want implemented that one of the others is not keen on. Some of the stuff the EU have forced upon us, i.e. were fought against by UK has been ending raw sewage being pumped into the sea, working time directive, as it was proven that excessive working hours shorten expected lifespan, monitoring and reduction measures of pollution, etc.
I don't know your view on these things, as it is the principle that you find more important than the reality it creates, but most of us are quite pleased the UK did not get it's way over these and other matters.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It's a matter of principle.

So you can't think of any, but if you could think of one, you'd be outraged

 

[Baldseagull]

Just because the current elected UK government doesnt tally with your own political views, you can't go looking around the world for a political bloc/country that does and then try to impose that on the rest of us back here in the UK.

Let the UK distribute its money on its own terms to its own people and if they fail then we can vote for someone else, this fixation that only Brussels can deliver appropriate decisions whilst the UK should be considered mostly hopeless, seems a bit odd to me.

It is not a foreign entity, we are a part of it. The rules that come our way have been formulated with our input, not handed down from others.

 

[vegster]

It's a matter of principle.

" These are my principles and if you don't like them .....well, I have others "

 

[The Clamp]

Just because the current elected UK government doesnt tally with your own political views, you can't go looking around the world for a political bloc/country that does and then try to impose that on the rest of us back here in the UK.

Let the UK distribute its money on its own terms to its own people and if they fail then we can vote for someone else, this fixation that only Brussels can deliver appropriate decisions whilst the UK should be considered mostly hopeless, seems a bit odd to me.

Yes, I imagine it does seem odd to you.

 

[BigGully]

Yes, I imagine it does seem odd to you.

YOU seem odd to me ........

 

[BigGully]

It is not a foreign entity, we are a part of it. The rules that come our way have been formulated with our input, not handed down from others.

'we WERE part of it' ...... WERE

 

[WATFORD zero]

'we WERE part of it' ...... WERE

Not for the first time, you are way out of touch with reality. We ARE part of it, and I'm willing to bet, WILL be part of it for some years to come - 29th march 2019? I suspect not

 

[nicko31]

Any predictions for what May will have to say tomorrow? Anything of significance or more La La Land politics?

 

[nicko31]

Not for the first time, you are way out of touch with reality. We ARE part of it, and I'm willing to bet, WILL be part of it for some years to come - 29th march 2019? I suspect not

A lot of fist pumping from the Brexiteers on here still, interspersed with abuse when they realise things aren't going as planned. The next few weeks are gonna hurt

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Any predictions for what May will have to say tomorrow? Anything of significance or more La La Land politics?

No idea, she probably does not know herself as Boris and Jacob are still working on it.
What I do know is that if she is asked any questions that she does not like or puts her on the spot her facial expression will change to one of anger with evil eyes, my god that woman has evil eyes, hopeless poker player, when she is put in a tricky situation the true May shows through, a horrible nasty peice of work.

 

[dingodan]

" These are my principles and if you don't like them .....well, I have others "

So you can't think of any, but if you could think of one, you'd be outraged

I say it's a matter of principle, because if I pointed out this or that law which I disagreed with it would imply that if the EU passed only laws which I agreed with then I would be Ok with our being subject to EU law. If the EU only made fluffy and cuddly laws which we could all agree are wonderful, I would still object, the principle, that a people are self determined (i.e. make decisions for themselves), is an important and long established one. One which usually people have no trouble understanding.

But we are part of the EU, it is not like we have no say in what comes our way. Sometimes we take stuff on that the Government of the day would rather not, and sometimes we get things we want implemented that one of the others is not keen on. Some of the stuff the EU have forced upon us, i.e. were fought against by UK has been ending raw sewage being pumped into the sea, working time directive, as it was proven that excessive working hours shorten expected lifespan, monitoring and reduction measures of pollution, etc.
I don't know your view on these things, as it is the principle that you find more important than the reality it creates, but most of us are quite pleased the UK did not get it's way over these and other matters.

In exactly the same way as above, it's not a question of this or that law, it's a matter of principle. Any law which you believe that the EU has implemented to our benefit could and should have been pursued by those who support it in this country.

If you were held captive and treated really well, you would still object to being held captive, and any argument about how well you might have been treated would not be sufficient to overcome your objection to it.

 

[pastafarian]

Which EU laws that we have been subject to don't you like?

What a puerile question, this ridiculous question usually spouts from the more infantile sub section of remainers who stamp their feet a lot through frustration of not being able to understand.
It is not a matter of liking or disliking an individual law, it is the principle of who is the decision maker and the accountability that goes with it.
If after all this time you still havnt grasped that then you most likely never will.

 

[vegster]

No idea, she probably does not know herself as Boris and Jacob are still working on it.
What I do know is that if she is asked any questions that she does not like or puts her on the spot her facial expression will change to one of anger with evil eyes, my god that woman has evil eyes, hopeless poker player, when she is put in a tricky situation the true May shows through, a horrible nasty peice of work.

I'll never forget the way she replied to the question from the nurse on one of her few televised " Debates " .... then she locked eyes and put on what she thought was a smile and said " We have had to make some tough decisions and i'm afraid there's no Magic Money tree.... ",,,,,, a month later she found one.

 

[vegster]

I say it's a matter of principle, because if I pointed out this or that law which I disagreed with it would imply that if the EU passed only laws which I agreed with then I would be Ok with our being subject to EU law. If the EU only made fluffy and cuddly laws which we could all agree are wonderful, I would still object, the principle, that a people are self determined (i.e. make decisions for themselves), is an important and long established one. One which usually people have no trouble understanding.



In exactly the same way as above, it's not a question of this or that law, it's a matter of principle. Any law which you believe that the EU has implemented to our benefit could and should have been pursued by those who support it in this country.

If you were held captive and treated really well, you would still object to being held captive, and any argument about how well you might have been treated would not be sufficient to overcome your objection to it.

So, when you drive to Europe you are fine with driving on the right hand side of the road as everyone else does ? but surely your " Self determination " is being stifled when you do this. However you go along with it and drive on the right, when you get back to Blighty you go back to driving on the left seamlessly. This seems very much like the scene from the Life of Brian when Judith rushes in to the meeting and says " Something is actually happening !!!" and Reg says " She's right, New agenda ! remove all previous resolutions from the list, this calls for immediate debate ". Principles are marvellous in their range and diversity but no one person can have their personal principles and not have them stomp on someone else's. That's why the rule of law is so difficult and so hard to standardise.

 

[dingodan]

So, when you drive to Europe you are fine with driving on the right hand side of the road as everyone else does ? but surely your " Self determination " is being stifled when you do this. However you go along with it and drive on the right, when you get back to Blighty you go back to driving on the left seamlessly. This seems very much like the scene from the Life of Brian when Judith rushes in to the meeting and says " Something is actually happening !!!" and Reg says " She's right, New agenda ! remove all previous resolutions from the list, this calls for immediate debate ". Principles are marvellous in their range and diversity but no one person can have their personal principles and not have them stomp on someone else's. That's why the rule of law is so difficult and so hard to standardise.

Seriously?

My belief in self determination does not mean I get to do whatever I want, it means the UK can make it the law that in the UK I must drive on one side of the road, and France can make it the law that in France I must drive on the other. I believe in the rights of the peoples of the UK and France to make their own laws, and I must respect both if I am in their country. I'm surprised I needed to explain that to be honest.

"Wait till Biggus Dickus hears of this!"

 

[vegster]

Seriously?

My belief in self determination does not mean I get to do whatever I want, it means the UK can make it the law that in the UK I must drive on one side of the road, and France can make it the law that in France I must drive on the other. I believe in the rights of the peoples of the UK and France to make their own laws, and I must respect both if I am in their country. I'm surprised I needed to explain that to be honest.

"Wait till Biggus Dickus hears of this!"

So you can accept a law made in this country even though it may go against your principles yet you cannot accept a law made in Europe even if it was proposed by the UK and UK MEP's voted for it ?

 

[Mental Lental]

I say it's a matter of principle, because if I pointed out this or that law which I disagreed with it would imply that if the EU passed only laws which I agreed with then I would be Ok with our being subject to EU law. If the EU only made fluffy and cuddly laws which we could all agree are wonderful, I would still object, the principle, that a people are self determined (i.e. make decisions for themselves), is an important and long established one.

I think you're full of shit. I'll help you out here.....Here is a law forced on us by the EU that you can object to.....

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jul/19/charges-paying-card-banned-flights-tax-bills

There was an EU directive that "All extra charges added to payments for goods and services made by card are to be outlawed, ending a “rip-off” that costs Britons hundreds of millions of pounds a year"

What complete and utter SHITHEADS eh? So as I understand it you object to this directive, in principle, because despite it ending years of CC charge abuse to British consumers it didn't originate IN BRITAIN. Have I got this right?

I personally wouldn't give a shit where a law came from if it immediately improved my quality of life. No more CC charges eh? Fecking GREAT! Good one EU! But there are people in the UK apparently who object to their lives being improved by EU directives because "it's the principal of the thing".

Well I put it to you that your "principals" are a load of shit.

Just my opinion like.

 

[dingodan]

So you can accept a law made in this country even though it may go against your principles yet you cannot accept a law made in Europe even if it was proposed by the UK and UK MEP's voted for it ?

My principles and the principles which underpin the law aren't exactly conflicting, so I'm not sure what you mean. The highest principle in my view is Liberty, and I think the law agrees.

I can accept a law made in Europe, of course I can. Just as long as it is passed in our parliament by our representatives, who are answerable and accountable to us.