[Politics] Brexit

[Jim in the West]

You mean like they have been for the past 30 - 40 years. Yeah let's blame Brexit for all that

The historic savings ratio in the UK is around 9% (ie, people save 9% of their disposable income). It fell dramatically in the run-up to the GFC in 2008, then rose again as people reacted to the crisis by reining in their expenditure. A year ago the ratio had fallen back to 6.1%. In Q1 of this year it fell to 1.7%. The issue isn't one of "blaming Brexit"....but rather the fact that, for the past year, UK plc has been supported by a massive debt-fuelled spending spree. It cannot carry on, as we are now significantly more in debt than we were just before the GFC (even after adjusting for inflation).

The private consumer is running out of money. Inward investment in the UK is declining. Businesses are putting investments on hold. We are the poorest performing economy in the EU. And it's going to get worse.

However, as we all know, Brexiteers DID vote to become poorer, so when they lose their jobs, can't get access to basic healthcare, etc, they will still be happy because they have "got back control" (Ooops - forgot - there's going to be a new international court to regulate our on-going relationship with Europe; we will still need to adhere to all the EU regs in order to trade with the EU; and we will have to accept much worse terms to trade with the rest of the world because we have next to zero bargaining power). Some time soon Colonel Blimp will realise that the rest of the world can get along quite nicely without us. Happy Days!

 

[BigGully]

The historic savings ratio in the UK is around 9% (ie, people save 9% of their disposable income). It fell dramatically in the run-up to the GFC in 2008, then rose again as people reacted to the crisis by reining in their expenditure. A year ago the ratio had fallen back to 6.1%. In Q1 of this year it fell to 1.7%. The issue isn't one of "blaming Brexit"....but rather the fact that, for the past year, UK plc has been supported by a massive debt-fuelled spending spree. It cannot carry on, as we are now significantly more in debt than we were just before the GFC (even after adjusting for inflation).

The private consumer is running out of money. Inward investment in the UK is declining. Businesses are putting investments on hold. We are the poorest performing economy in the EU. And it's going to get worse.

However, as we all know, Brexiteers DID vote to become poorer, so when they lose their jobs, can't get access to basic healthcare, etc, they will still be happy because they have "got back control" (Ooops - forgot - there's going to be a new international court to regulate our on-going relationship with Europe; we will still need to adhere to all the EU regs in order to trade with the EU; and we will have to accept much worse terms to trade with the rest of the world because we have next to zero bargaining power). Some time soon Colonel Blimp will realise that the rest of the world can get along quite nicely without us. Happy Days!

Starting out with a few reasonable facts, then typically ending with your typical rant of being an avid Remainer, its boring mate, really boring.

 

[vegster]

The wheels are falling off (almost literally)....

"Investment in the UK car industry has fallen to just £322m in the first half of 2017, in a sign that companies are delaying or cancelling spending ahead of the UK leaving the EU. Investment in the UK car industry last year was £1.66bn, which was down from the £2.5bn in investment recorded in 2015, as carmakers and their suppliers delayed non-essential investment following the EU referendum last June. But investment looks to have fallen even further in the first six months of 2017, according to figures compiled by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders industry body. If the same levels of investment are seen in the second half of the year, it would bring total annual spend on the UK car industry to just £644m — less than half of the amount invested last year and nearly one-quarter of the amount invested two years ago."

Surely "Project Fear" can't be coming true?![/QUOTE]

Certainly starting to look like it, growth stagnating, inflation up,lack of investment and wages stagnating. We are now being told that brexit will not deliver a windfall of possibilities and jobs either.

 

[ManOfSussex]

You forgot children amongst this obviously diverse group(see photo), indoctrinated kids are always needed to bulk up the viewing figures. No cult can succeed without brainwashing the children as well as the adults.

There were lots of families there - St. Leonards festival was going on and many of them were heading over to Kings Road/Warrior Square station area afterwards.

 

[nicko31]

The wheels are falling off (almost literally)....

"Investment in the UK car industry has fallen to just £322m in the first half of 2017, in a sign that companies are delaying or cancelling spending ahead of the UK leaving the EU. Investment in the UK car industry last year was £1.66bn, which was down from the £2.5bn in investment recorded in 2015, as carmakers and their suppliers delayed non-essential investment following the EU referendum last June. But investment looks to have fallen even further in the first six months of 2017, according to figures compiled by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders industry body. If the same levels of investment are seen in the second half of the year, it would bring total annual spend on the UK car industry to just £644m — less than half of the amount invested last year and nearly one-quarter of the amount invested two years ago."

Surely "Project Fear" can't be coming true?![/QUOTE]

Certainly starting to look like it, growth stagnating, inflation up,lack of investment and wages stagnating. We are now being told that brexit will not deliver a windfall of possibilities and jobs either.

Headlines like this don't help

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...otiations-talks-eu-divorce-bill-a7818961.html

The reality is if you are in business you are battening down the hatches for stormy seas ahead.

With all this there is suddenly talk of easing austerity, right now we just can't afford it

 

[studio150]

UK manufacturing has seen record growth, so it depends what you read doesn't it. We are not going to starve to death, people have got enough money for season tickets and other luxury items, so I say get a ****ing grip, stop the doom and gloom over Brexit and just get on with your life.

I see the Andrea Leadsom response, well done head in the sand always works.

Season Tickets brought on monthly direct debit thereby adding to the debt, and how many would not have been renewed if we had not been promoted.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

shocking to think that the same old toby's still haven't come to terms with leaving the EU
regards
DR

 

[Jim in the West]

Starting out with a few reasonable facts, then typically ending with your typical rant of being an avid Remainer, its boring mate, really boring.

Sorry if I bore you - just ignore me! However, I take your point and will try to resist the temptation in future....

 

[Jim in the West]

shocking to think that the same old toby's still haven't come to terms with leaving the EU
regards
DR

For me it's not a question of "coming to terms" with leaving the EU. For as long as we are still in the EU I will campaign to stay. And when/if we leave, I will campaign to re-join. If we do eventually leave, simple demographics mean that the desire to re-join will grow every year. Like it or not, the young are VERY pro-EU. Stats out today show that 85% of young people (18 - 24 yo) want to retain EU citizenship. The elderly, who voted in a large majority to Leave, will die off - to be replaced (as voters) by the young who are increasingly engaged and virtually all pro-EU. For Remainers a soft Brexit is critical, as it will ease the path to re-joining at a later date. But, as each day goes past, the chances of a reversal of Brexit are increasing.

 

[vegster]

For me it's not a question of "coming to terms" with leaving the EU. For as long as we are still in the EU I will campaign to stay. And when/if we leave, I will campaign to re-join. If we do eventually leave, simple demographics mean that the desire to re-join will grow every year. Like it or not, the young are VERY pro-EU. Stats out today show that 85% of young people (18 - 24 yo) want to retain EU citizenship. The elderly, who voted in a large majority to Leave, will die off - to be replaced (as voters) by the young who are increasingly engaged and virtually all pro-EU. For Remainers a soft Brexit is critical, as it will ease the path to re-joining at a later date. But, as each day goes past, the chances of a reversal of Brexit are increasing.

Especially as there will be no Magic Money Tree upon Brexit...

 

[GT49er]

For me it's not a question of "coming to terms" with leaving the EU. For as long as we are still in the EU I will campaign to stay. And when/if we leave, I will campaign to re-join. If we do eventually leave, simple demographics mean that the desire to re-join will grow every year. Like it or not, the young are VERY pro-EU. Stats out today show that 85% of young people (18 - 24 yo) want to retain EU citizenship. The elderly, who voted in a large majority to Leave, will die off - to be replaced (as voters) by the young who are increasingly engaged and virtually all pro-EU. For Remainers a soft Brexit is critical, as it will ease the path to re-joining at a later date. But, as each day goes past, the chances of a reversal of Brexit are increasing.

Rejoin? Oh, ffs - on what terms? Join the Euro, sign up to Shengen. No opt outs. Progress (!!!) towards a United States of Europe? Thankfully, the young - who are wonderful people, some of whom I am proud to have brought into this world - will grow up (have families, take on responsibilities, learn a bit about the real world, etc.) in time not to follow your Pan-Europe delusions. The young hate corruption as much as I do - they will gradually come to recognise - and reject - it.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Rejoin? Oh, ffs - on what terms? Join the Euro, sign up to Shengen. No opt outs. Progress (!!!) towards a United States of Europe? Thankfully, the young - who are wonderful people, some of whom I am proud to have brought into this world - will grow up (have families, take on responsibilities, learn a bit about the real world, etc.) in time not to follow your Pan-Europe delusions. The young hate corruption as much as I do - they will gradually come to recognise - and reject - it.

We'll rejoin on those terms, or others, in the future, whenever that will be, in my opinion. The here and now is irrelevant. Little England 'aint going to be all it's cracked up to be.

 

[Baldseagull]

Rejoin? Oh, ffs - on what terms? Join the Euro, sign up to Shengen. No opt outs. Progress (!!!) towards a United States of Europe? Thankfully, the young - who are wonderful people, some of whom I am proud to have brought into this world - will grow up (have families, take on responsibilities, learn a bit about the real world, etc.) in time not to follow your Pan-Europe delusions. The young hate corruption as much as I do - they will gradually come to recognise - and reject - it.

Likely to be worse terms that what we have now, yes. Will be better than being outside of the EU though.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Rejoin? Oh, ffs - on what terms? Join the Euro, sign up to Shengen. No opt outs. Progress (!!!) towards a United States of Europe? Thankfully, the young - who are wonderful people, some of whom I am proud to have brought into this world - will grow up (have families, take on responsibilities, learn a bit about the real world, etc.) in time not to follow your Pan-Europe delusions. The young hate corruption as much as I do - they will gradually come to recognise - and reject - it.

Indeed plus of course the Europhiles on here assume the EU will magically overcome the Eurozone crisis and numerous other tensions caused by ever closer union unscathed (after losing their 2nd biggest cash cow). Will it even exist in 20,30 years time?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

We'll rejoin on those terms, or others, in the future, whenever that will be, in my opinion. The here and now is irrelevant. Little England 'aint going to be all it's cracked up to be.

And I'll take a 52/48 victory as a mandate for a hard remain: Schengen, The Euro, EU Army, croissants and jam for breakfast

 

[Trufflehound]

croissants and jam for breakfast

Wouldn't happen in Germany.

Cured pork products please.

 

[GT49er]

Likely to be worse terms that what we have now, yes.

Absolutely right.

Will be better than being outside of the EU though.

Absolutely wrong.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Wouldn't happen in Germany.

Cured pork products please.

Maybe a EU directive on breakfasts is in order? The Full EU? The Full Junker?

 

[beorhthelm]

And I'll take a 52/48 victory as a mandate for a hard remain: Schengen, The Euro, EU Army, croissants and jam for breakfast

you jest, however a reversed result would lead to whatever future the EU have in store. there was no option for the status quo, it was either leave or continue with the European project that includes compulsory adoption of Euro, common foreign policy, common defense with standing EU army, which are matters that are already in discussion. the EU isn't inclined to adopt a two tier system, even though it would suit everyone better, so the best long term future is outside that project.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

you jest, however a reversed result would lead to whatever future the EU have in store. there was no option for the status quo, it was either leave or continue with the European project that includes compulsory adoption of Euro, common foreign policy, common defense with standing EU army, which are matters that are already in discussion. the EU isn't inclined to adopt a two tier system, even though it would suit everyone better, so the best long term future is outside that project.

I'll ponder this over tomorrow's Full Junker.