[Politics] Brexit

[nicko31]

Wow, that was like a kindergarten for a few posts! Way to go leavers representatives. Youre looking good!![/QUOTE

Something ironic about many of the responses in the context of the original subject matter

 

[brighton fella]

Wow, that was like a kindergarten for a few posts! Way to go leavers representatives. Youre looking good!![/QUOTE

Something ironic about many of the responses in the context of the original subject matter

:Awfully sorry just cant help myself

 

[The Clamp]

Whoever it is it will be put down under the usual mental problems.

I don't think they do that in Germany anymore.

 

[studio150]

This is a peach!

I have spent most of this week explaining repeatedly that controlling the labour market would not mean restrictions for UK workers, and would only affect foreign workers. I know this concept has been difficult to absorb despite it being the modus operandi of most developed economies.

This particular leap to such a policy being aligned to the removal of free press and supporting North Korea is an absolute beauty.

Can you see dead people?

You have stated previously that you would intervene to control wages and improve living standards.

So what do you do where a newspaper is losing circulation numbers and making a loss. To overco.e this they wsnt to reduce employee numbers and cut wages which you wont allow. A reduction in cover price is not an option given the feedback from ex readers is content.

 

[The Rivet]

This thread is getting very silly. Idiotic lefties and remoaners using every bit the English language and therefore argumentative ability to their utmost. It is obvious, disingenuous and plainly pathetic. There is going to be a withdrawal from the EU. Does not matter your rhetoric your baloney your despised liberalism. It will happen. Therefore instead of damaging the UK with your negativity you should work with it. Just remember if you don't you will be hurting your children's future.

 

[daveinprague]

Getting ready to blame 'lefties' already.

 

[studio150]

This thread is getting very silly. Idiotic lefties and remoaners using every bit the English language and therefore argumentative ability to their utmost. It is obvious, disingenuous and plainly pathetic. There is going to be a withdrawal from the EU. Does not matter your rhetoric your baloney your despised liberalism. It will happen. Therefore instead of damaging the UK with your negativity you should work with it. Just remember if you don't you will be hurting your children's future.

Our childrens future has already been ruined by the referendum result.

The issue with the use of correct English is nothing to do with anyone who voted Remain, it is more to do with Leave voters inability to understand and grasp basic language skills. This may have something to do with the demographics of voters in the referendum.

Yet again though, a Leaver moaning about anyone who isn't all smiles and saying how wonderful it is to be leaving, Anything that challenges a leavers' view is just dismissed as being negative and more often than not, no answer is forthcoming to any question raised.

 

[portslade seagull]

Our childrens future has already been ruined by the referendum result.

The issue with the use of correct English is nothing to do with anyone who voted Remain, it is more to do with Leave voters inability to understand and grasp basic language skills. This may have something to do with the demographics of voters in the referendum.

Yet again though, a Leaver moaning about anyone who isn't all smiles and saying how wonderful it is to be leaving, Anything that challenges a leavers' view is just dismissed as being negative and more often than not, no answer is forthcoming to any question raised.

You just can't help yourself with your snidey putdowns can you. If you want to know why remain lost just look back through your posts. Playground at it best

 

[cunning fergus]

You have stated previously that you would intervene to control wages and improve living standards.

So what do you do where a newspaper is losing circulation numbers and making a loss. To overco.e this they wsnt to reduce employee numbers and cut wages which you wont allow. A reduction in cover price is not an option given the feedback from ex readers is content.

You are entirely correct, I would control flows of foreign workers into the UK labour market for exactly the reasons you have stated. This is entirely consistent with what other developed economies do.

I think are finally getting somewhere with you on the basic concept of regulating markets as oppose to unregulated markets. Well done.

Businesses will go bust for whatever reason, UK and foreign workers will be laid off, however for foreign workers then unemployment would invalidate their visa that permits them to work here.

If they are high skilled workers then no doubt they could get a new job and their working visa can be refreshed. For the low skilled once their working visa comes to an end then they have to leave. Whilst unemployed foreign workers would not get benefits unless they had paid in a minimum amount in tax, although I would make it a condition on their employers to pay into a special insurance scheme for foreign workers to provide short term hardship payments should they become unemployed in the UK. I would do the same for healthcare and the like too.

Next question.

 

[cunning fergus]

Our childrens future has already been ruined by the referendum result.

The issue with the use of correct English is nothing to do with anyone who voted Remain, it is more to do with Leave voters inability to understand and grasp basic language skills. This may have something to do with the demographics of voters in the referendum.

Yet again though, a Leaver moaning about anyone who isn't all smiles and saying how wonderful it is to be leaving, Anything that challenges a leavers' view is just dismissed as being negative and more often than not, no answer is forthcoming to any question raised.

Oh dear, you have let yourself down again here..........

Our children's future has been secured, if we manage Brexit we can be prosperous, independent and confident about our future.

In contrast chaining ourselves to the dying corpse of the EU is the road to the poorhouse.

 

[cunning fergus]

Its sad but Brexit is a bit of a class war.

The higher educated and more travelled generally voted Remain. Whereas, if you've lived in the same town your whole life and left school at 16 you are far more likely to have voted Leave.

There will always be exceptions but out of everyone I know, this applies of about 80% of cases

You have a point about class, but these days that paradigm is occupied by the wealthier "middle classes" who always know what is best for the rest of us, not least us working class. Brighton is chock-a-block with these pious snobs.........I think the epicentre of their nest is in the Hanover area, which is a shame given the areas deep working class heritage.

Anyway, other than that I think your point is way off the scale in understanding what Brexit is.

Brexit was largely the consequence of the older and wiser generations correcting the mistake the country had made in '74 when it voted to join the EEC. Those over the age of 58 were able to vote in the first referendum on EEC membership and in '74 they did so in overwhelming numbers (70% I think). They were not thick uneducated racists then, so they are not thick uneducated racists in 2017.

They knew that what they were sold in 74 had morphed into something entirely different and they hadn't been asked to vote on the changes and they didn't like it.

Qualifications do not bestow wisdom, only age and experience do that.......you should be grateful to your elders and betters for their foresight rather than berating them for not having qualifications. When they were young University was for the few, and therefore that was not there fault was it?

Given the downright priggishness of your post I will take a punt that whilst you may have qualifications, you didn't vote in '74.........which has kinda proves my point doesn't it?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Our childrens future has already been ruined by the referendum result.

The issue with the use of correct English is nothing to do with anyone who voted Remain, it is more to do with Leave voters inability to understand and grasp basic language skills. This may have something to do with the demographics of voters in the referendum.

Yet again though, a Leaver moaning about anyone who isn't all smiles and saying how wonderful it is to be leaving, Anything that challenges a leavers' view is just dismissed as being negative and more often than not, no answer is forthcoming to any question raised.

The country was ruined long before Brexit, the 2008 financial meltdown. Don't know if you have ever worked in Mechanical Engineering yourself?, but I got made redundant twice, and I saw countless other companies close over the years because they simply couldn't compete with countries like China, I saw machine shops from the colleges I studied at sold off, replaced with computers instead, Brexit hopefully favours Manufacturing again because this country so badly needs it. Sad that all the manual skills this country held have gone, I was the last generation to benefit from this. The people that trained me in the early 90's are probably gone.

 

[studio150]

You are entirely correct, I would control flows of foreign workers into the UK labour market for exactly the reasons you have stated. This is entirely consistent with what other developed economies do.

I think are finally getting somewhere with you on the basic concept of regulating markets as oppose to unregulated markets. Well done.

Businesses will go bust for whatever reason, UK and foreign workers will be laid off, however for foreign workers then unemployment would invalidate their visa that permits them to work here.

If they are high skilled workers then no doubt they could get a new job and their working visa can be refreshed. For the low skilled once their working visa comes to an end then they have to leave. Whilst unemployed foreign workers would not get benefits unless they had paid in a minimum amount in tax, although I would make it a condition on their employers to pay into a special insurance scheme for foreign workers to provide short term hardship payments should they become unemployed in the UK. I would do the same for healthcare and the like too.

Next question.

So this is totally different to you intervening to maintain wages. You are now happy to let UK workers become unemployed or to have their wages slashed as you are only interested in keeping those foreigners out.

No wonder you never answer direct questions given you keep making things up and when you do what you have come up with contradicts what you have said previously.

 

[studio150]

You have a point about class, but these days that paradigm is occupied by the wealthier "middle classes" who always know what is best for the rest of us, not least us working class. Brighton is chock-a-block with these pious snobs.........I think the epicentre of their nest is in the Hanover area, which is a shame given the areas deep working class heritage.

Anyway, other than that I think your point is way off the scale in understanding what Brexit is.

Brexit was largely the consequence of the older and wiser generations correcting the mistake the country had made in '74 when it voted to join the EEC. Those over the age of 58 were able to vote in the first referendum on EEC membership and in '74 they did so in overwhelming numbers (70% I think). They were not thick uneducated racists then, so they are not thick uneducated racists in 2017.

They knew that what they were sold in 74 had morphed into something entirely different and they hadn't been asked to vote on the changes and they didn't like it.

Qualifications do not bestow wisdom, only age and experience do that.......you should be grateful to your elders and betters for their foresight rather than berating them for not having qualifications. When they were young University was for the few, and therefore that was not there fault was it?

Given the downright priggishness of your post I will take a punt that whilst you may have qualifications, you didn't vote in '74.........which has kinda proves my point doesn't it?

At least educated people would be aware that the referendum on EEC membership was in 1975 not 1974 but hey why let little things like being factually correct get in the way.

Also 1975 is 42 years ago therefore 58-42 is 16. Perhaps you can inform everyone who reads this thread how many 16 year olds voted in the 1975 referendum.

Still good to see that our elders and betters are exhibiting that wisdom that shows they know more than better educated people.

Well done you have just proved your point. Happy days.

 

[cunning fergus]

So this is totally different to you intervening to maintain wages. You are now happy to let UK workers become unemployed or to have their wages slashed as you are only interested in keeping those foreigners out.

No wonder you never answer direct questions given you keep making things up and when you do what you have come up with contradicts what you have said previously.

You are slipping backwards again now.........managing supply and demand of foreign workers entering the UK labour market does not mean there would be no unemployment for UK workers, neither would it deny the UK labour market to ALL foreign workers.

Do you have any understanding at all about how other countries operate visas for foreigners seeking to move into their countries for work?

 

[cunning fergus]

At least educated people would be aware that the referendum on EEC membership was in 1975 not 1974 but hey why let little things like being factually correct get in the way.

Also 1975 is 42 years ago therefore 58-42 is 16. Perhaps you can inform everyone who reads this thread how many 16 year olds voted in the 1975 referendum.

Still good to see that our elders and betters are exhibiting that wisdom that shows they know more than better educated people.

Well done you have just proved your point. Happy days.

No you are right, I don't have any qualifications to speak of.....I am just a working class Herbert from Moulsecoomb.

Still, if you could indulge me here, I think that in terms of this argument a year here and a year in terms of historical accuracy does not undermine the essence of the point.

That you would seek to berate a poor thick unqualified working class lad for his minor inaccuracies in a wider point only serves to prove my point about priggish snobbery.

Deary me.

 

[studio150]

You are slipping backwards again now.........managing supply and demand of foreign workers entering the UK labour market does not mean there would be no unemployment for UK workers, neither would it deny the UK labour market to ALL foreign workers.

Do you have any understanding at all about how other countries operate visas for foreigners seeking to move into their countries for work?

I know how countries operate I am merely responding to what you have written previously but why not change your stance every time you post

 

[studio150]

No you are right, I don't have any qualifications to speak of.....I am just a working class Herbert from Moulsecoomb.

Still, if you could indulge me here, I think that in terms of this argument a year here and a year in terms of historical accuracy does not undermine the essence of the point.

That you would seek to berate a poor thick unqualified working class lad for his minor inaccuracies in a wider point only serves to prove my point about priggish snobbery.

Deary me.

Usual response get things wrong and basically just say it doesn't matter ,

 

[Baldseagull]

I think that the attacker will not be a native German citizen........do we know yet?

Kosovan, not someone who arrived under free movement of labour, but as has been said, the issue is your immediate assumption. I guess we should not be surprised when a leave voter makes up his mind without reference to facts.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

The country was ruined long before Brexit, the 2008 financial meltdown. Don't know if you have ever worked in Mechanical Engineering yourself?, but I got made redundant twice, and I saw countless other companies close over the years because they simply couldn't compete with countries like China, I saw machine shops from the colleges I studied at sold off, replaced with computers instead, Brexit hopefully favours Manufacturing again because this country so badly needs it. Sad that all the manual skills this country held have gone, I was the last generation to benefit from this. The people that trained me in the early 90's are probably gone.

I totally agree that the decimation of our manufacturing, for which both main parties take responsibility, has been disastrous for the sustainability of the economy and the many lives and communities that have been destroyed. I am sorry to hear about the experiences that you have had.

But how do we start to re-build up our manufacturing sector?. We cannot (and should not) compete on low labour costs so it comes down to specialist skills and investment in cutting edge technology. For this we need to invest heavily in skills and the research needed to apply emerging technologies. The skills agenda is a matter of domestic government investment decisions, and some like the emphasis on apprenticeships are good news. However, the latter will require research funding and partnerships. How will Brexit help with this? Currently the biggest single source of research funding for UK universities is EU Horizon 2020 and we are already being excluded from bids for projects in this area. Certainly we can seek partnerships with bodies in the US; but we were doing that anyway; EU member or not.