[Politics] Brexit

[BigGully]

I doubt if many British citizens are doing the work that home country nationals do not want to do.
There may be legions of fruit pickers, and labourers here, but frankly, I doubt it.

That would indicate that EU residing UK nationals are not driving down wages for the poorest in their host country and of course the disparity in the economies and wages between the UK and some of those EU countires means there is no incentive for those to go there and work anyway.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

That dynamic directly correlates to the numbers game.... 3m EU citizens in a congested UK population 65m...... 1.3 UK citizens spread across 27 countries amongst a population of half a billion.

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So there is a numerical calculation that indicates when verbal hostility through to full violence becomes inevitable (and understandable). I hope that the resulting algorithm also considers tax paid, skills contributed and contribution to essential services. If people seem to have moved so far into a moral vacuum that they don't get the ethical arguments then maybe the impact of some of these net contributors leaving due to the uncertainty might have some traction. It certainly is happening where I work but then I am sure that my highly-skilled colleague who I recruited from Galicia (no local applicants) could realistically be replaced by some rough diamond from Goole given some polishing.

 

[daveinprague]

That would indicate that EU residing UK nationals are not driving down wages for the poorest in their host country and of course the disparity in the economies and wages between the UK and some of those EU countires means there is no incentive for those to go there and work anyway.

It would indicate to me that British employers are driving down wages, not the recipients.

 

[heathgate]

So there is a numerical calculation that indicates when verbal hostility through to full violence becomes inevitable (and understandable). I hope that the resulting algorithm also considers tax paid, skills contributed and contribution to essential services. If people seem to have moved so far into a moral vacuum that they don't get the ethical arguments then maybe the impact of some of these net contributors leaving due to the uncertainty might have some traction. It certainly is happening where I work but then I am sure that my highly-skilled colleague who I recruited from Galicia (no local applicants) could realistically be replaced by some rough diamond from Goole given some polishing.

The numbers/density stats simply illustrates how the different dynamic evolves.... a dynamic highlighted by DIP..... nothing more.

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[BigGully]

It would indicate to me that British employers are driving down wages, not the recipients.

Ah come on, if you have a an unskilled workforce wherever they may come and a recipient country has a minimum wage that in some circumstances is nine times that of where they come from, then the incentive to do the work in that country rather than their own is quite obvious.

We might agree to disagree on whether this should be tolerated or not, but they are not here to save our fruit picking industry.

 

[daveinprague]

Ah come on, if you have a an unskilled workforce wherever they may come and a recipient country has a minimum wage that in some circumstances is nine times that of where they come from, then the incentive to do the work in that country rather than their own is quite obvious.

We might agree to disagree on whether this should be tolerated or not, but they are not here to save our fruit picking industry.

Will they be replaced by British workers do you think?

 

[BigGully]

Will they be replaced by British workers do you think?

A targeted and controlled immigration policy seems wholly reasonable.

 

[beorhthelm]

Will they be replaced by British workers do you think?

nope, they'll be replaced by foreign workers on visas. British "workers" dont want those jobs, otherwise they wouldnt need to look for labour abroad.

 

[daveinprague]

A targeted and controlled immigration policy seems wholly reasonable.

So, people who will do the jobs British people wont do you mean?
This isnt really what we are talking about though is it. Its the people that are already here. The ones subjected to verbal, and physical attacks, and in at least one case death.

 

[daveinprague]

nope, they'll be replaced by foreign workers on visas. British "workers" dont want those jobs, otherwise they wouldnt need to look for labour abroad.

Maybe, but we are now all drifting away from what we were talking about, and thats the rights of the EU citizens already in the UK, and why the Government would be disappointed in an amendment that protects their rights.
What happens in the future is something separate from the current discussion I think.

 

[heathgate]

Will they be replaced by British workers do you think?

Not at 5 pound and hour and living in a caravan in a farmyard in the middle of nowhere......

Drive along any rural road in Suffolk, Norfolk and Cambridgeshire.... where I went recently.... it's awash with people living in caravans and mobile homes alongside agricultural land.... poor conditions.

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[BigGully]

So, people who will do the jobs British people wont do you mean?
This isnt really what we are talking about though is it. Its the people that are already here. The ones subjected to verbal, and physical attacks, and in at least one case death.

Well you could say those economic migrants that come here to do the jobs they are unwilling to do in their own countries, so thats silly.

If you have a starting position where you think there is frequent flagrant racist abuse and attacks in Britain then you are wrong, you regularly negatively generalise about the UK and its citizens, its your default position.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Thanks for that...... inarticulate.... priceless.

It's exactly Juncker and his track record that is driving this safety first approach. He has already articulated ( big word), his spiteful and vengeful side in many statements since June, why would we blithely accept that he will reciprocate any early gesture from the UK side?

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No, he says make unilateral gesture, I say it would be risky to assume they will treat UK expats equally magnanimously, so keep our powder dry.

Good luck getting a sensible answer to that question. If some people on this thread were negotiating for the UK I expect we would end up in the Eurozone.

What they do is up to them and their conscience (if they have one). We do the right thing, merely because it is the right thing to do. We hope for reciprocation but if it is unforthcoming, we live with it. We are a (soon to be) free sovereign nation. Time to start showing the world what kind of nation that is going to be. I hope it's a decent, honourable, straight dealing one, you hope it's one that imitates the worst of of Junker and the EU. Is that really what you voted for?

 

[daveinprague]

Well you could say those economic migrants that come here to do the jobs they are unwilling to do in their own countries, so thats silly.

If you have a starting position where you think there is frequent flagrant racist abuse and attacks in Britain then you are wrong, you regularly negatively generalise about the UK and its citizens, its your default position.

Ok, there have been no verbal, or physical attacks on EU citizens in the UK and none have been reported.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ncrease-police-figures-official-a7358866.html

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Explain

Inarticulate you said,... who is schizophrenic now?

A few posts later you provide your own example. Question, how do these two items relate?

 

[studio150]

Drive along any rural road in Suffolk, Norfolk and Cambridgeshire.... where I went recently.... it's awash with people living in caravans and mobile homes alongside agricultural land.... poor conditions.

Thanks for letting us know about the locals, what about the migrants

 

[beorhthelm]

Maybe, but we are now all drifting away from what we were talking about, and thats the rights of the EU citizens already in the UK, and why the Government would be disappointed in an amendment that protects their rights.

i dont think the government are really much disappointed. they have adopted a sensible position of "repel all boarders" (as i heard it termed), to prevent a slew of amendments added to the bill, to slow down its progress, and in some cases attempt to derail the whole process. reckon if you asked May's honest opinion, it would probably be that this and a few other measures would be good ideas. however they lead to more questions and more debate (when would the cut off be, should that be in the bill; does it apply if x or y condition aren't met, so on). two line bill would soon be two, then ten pages long.

this item can be covered on day one of the negotiation if the EU want, put it number one on the agenda and agree reciprocal rights of existing members from that date. if the EU want to attach a raft of conditions, then that's their position, and if we'd promised it in the bill we have to accept them all.

 

[Soulman]

I think we should ignore [MENTION=32776]heathgate[/MENTION]. I think he's drunk, or schizophrenic.

Yet another one who does not share your opinion eh. Perhaps we should just agree with your superior knowledge.

 

[heathgate]

What they do is up to them and their conscience (if they have one). We do the right thing, merely because it is the right thing to do. We hope for reciprocation but if it is unforthcoming, we live with it. We are a (soon to be) free sovereign nation. Time to start showing the world what kind of nation that is going to be. I hope it's a decent, honourable, straight dealing one, you hope it's one that imitates the worst of of Junker and the EU. Is that really what you voted for?

No.... I hope it's one that mitigates the worst of Juncker and the EU



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[heathgate]

Thanks for letting us know about the locals, what about the migrants

Hardy har

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