[Politics] Brexit

[Pretty pink fairy]

I refer all posters to the answer I gave sometime ago [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using pineapple upside-down cake

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regards
DR

 

[Two Professors]

Then why the need to lie about the numbers in the first place?

Why this strange obsession with numbers that change on a daily basis anyway?It doesn't change the FACT that these foreign offenders cost us an awful lot of money.Or can you dispute that?Perhaps living with drug dealers and rapists from a different country is culturally enriching for British prisoners,thus negating the cost!

 

[pastafarian]

I won't ask the question again as you are wasting my time.

aw dont be like that,i was just looking for clarity on your statement

can you confirm , that along with herrT and 5ways you believe its possible to implement the tier system to eu nationals in the first place

It's possible to introduce any tiering system you like to any nationals you want - should you wish, and should you have pockets deep enough to fund the tiering system you want.

can we introduce the tier system now,pre referendum or do we not have the control of our borders that would allow us to do that.

 

[jgmcdee]

Why this strange obsession with numbers that change on a daily basis anyway?It doesn't change the FACT that these foreign offenders cost us an awful lot of money.Or can you dispute that?Perhaps living with drug dealers and rapists from a different country is culturally enriching for British prisoners,thus negating the cost!

Why this strange obsession with numbers? I dunno, perhaps some weird problem I have with people making stuff up?

Feel free to present your FACTs. I took a quick look for info about prisoner numbers and costs and couldn't find any.

Not that I'm going to dispute them, if you can provide something that's accurate. I was just pointing out that the official figures bear no relation to the rubbish that was posted in some vague attempt to make a point.

 

[Hamilton]

aw dont be like that,i was just looking for clarity on your statement

can we introduce the tier system now,pre referendum or do we not have the control of our borders that would allow us to do that.

What are the advantages to the UK, economic or otherwise, of extending an immigration tiering system to EU nationals?

 

[cunning fergus]

I never said you did.

No I am the liar.......deliberately and underhandedly expressing the number of foreign prisoners in UK jails as 14,000 when I meant it was 14% (see below); I unforgivably lost that point in translation when pulling my email together.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/offenders/types-of-offender/foreign

You may consider that it makes a huge difference to the argument however I don't........whether it's 10k or 14% the taxpayer is paying that cost, and therefore is that money offset from the oft expressed benefits of our migrant chums.

Plus, when we refer to the benefits of these foreign philanthropists can we do so in the knowledge that some UK citizens have been murdered, raped and violently assaulted at the hands of some of these newcomers.

For the victims I suspect the ongoing spin of (dubious) benefits are little consolation.....

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Why not include Farage in the debate? Hopefully that's a few more votes for Leave because of it.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/nigel-farage-of-ukip-allegedly-blocked-from-bbc-brexit-debate-2016-5

 

[pastafarian]

What are the advantages to the UK, economic or otherwise, of extending an immigration tiering system to EU nationals?

im surprised you dont understand this yet
we cant extend our immigration tier system to include EU nationals
as we currently dont have that sort of control of our borders.

 

[jgmcdee]

No I am the liar.......deliberately and underhandedly expressing the number of foreign prisoners in UK jails as 14,000 when I meant it was 14% (see below); I unforgivably lost that point in translation when pulling my email together.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/offenders/types-of-offender/foreign

You may consider that it makes a huge difference to the argument however I don't........whether it's 10k or 14% the taxpayer is paying that cost, and therefore is that money offset from the oft expressed benefits of our migrant chums.

If you don't consider the number important then why bother putting one in your post?

And if you do consider the number important it might be worth taking like-for-like. The report that was being discussed was about EEA migrants, and the total number of EEA foreign nationals in prison at last count was a touch over 4,200. And that includes over 750 Irish, who would have access to the UK under previous laws anyway. Even if you leave them in that's 4,200 instead of 14,000 or 30% of your stated figure.

And yes, criminals are bad.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

What are the advantages to the UK, economic or otherwise, of extending an immigration tiering system to EU nationals?

It's obvious to me that you bring in people for the high paying jobs, high paying jobs means more tax back in to our system, and less payments out on things like in work benefits. It's what it should have always been.

Need to start focusing on getting our long term unemployed and school leavers in to work first.

 

[Albumen]

Why not include Farage in the debate? Hopefully that's a few more votes for Leave because of it.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/nigel-farage-of-ukip-allegedly-blocked-from-bbc-brexit-debate-2016-5

Because he's a buffoon that can't manage to take a shit without saying he word immigration. And he's got the Cameron gig, hasn't he?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Because he's a buffoon that can't manage to take a shit without saying he word immigration. And he's got the Cameron gig, hasn't he?

Without him we wouldn't have got this referendum. Farage has done more than all the politicians put together. Farage stands for democracy.
He has got the Cameron gig, but this debate needs Farage also.

 

[The Clamp]

Once again the British subjects are instructed to choose between two black and white options. In or out?
Could there not perhaps be some kind of negotiated compromise? No. Definitely not. Impossible. Pick a side subject. Pick a side and no going back.
Ridiculous way for humans to carry on.

Cameron's government has nearly been responsible for the break up of two historical and important unions now.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Negotiate, now I like the sound of that, but the EU doesn't negotiate in the interests of people, which is why we have arrived at the option.

 

[Two Professors]

Why this strange obsession with numbers? I dunno, perhaps some weird problem I have with people making stuff up?

Feel free to present your FACTs. I took a quick look for info about prisoner numbers and costs and couldn't find any.

Not that I'm going to dispute them, if you can provide something that's accurate. I was just pointing out that the official figures bear no relation to the rubbish that was posted in some vague attempt to make a point.

Doesn't seem to be any clear cut figure on costs apart from the Minister saying 'North of £300 million' in a Parliamentary Q & A.After the 'Official' figures on immigration were published and subsequently proved to be farcically under-estimated I don't think any sane person believes UK Gov figures on anything!

 

[GT49er]

If you don't consider the number important then why bother putting one in your post?

Absolutely - some of the numbers quoted are ridiculous Every family £8,300 worse off - or was it £3,800? Who cares - it's a mythical figure, intended to scare. So OK you're right, numbers not important.......

The report that was being discussed was about EEA migrants, and the total number of EEA foreign nationals in prison at last count was a touch over 4,200. And that includes over 750 Irish, who would have access to the UK under previous laws anyway. Even if you leave them in that's 4,200 instead of 14,000 or 30% of your stated figure.

Kettle.....pot ........

 

[jgmcdee]

Absolutely - some of the numbers quoted are ridiculous Every family £8,300 worse off - or was it £3,800? Who cares - it's a mythical figure, intended to scare. So OK you're right, numbers not important.......


Kettle.....pot ........

And the bit where I said numbers are not important is where, exactly?

 

[Hamilton]

It's obvious to me that you bring in people for the high paying jobs, high paying jobs means more tax back in to our system, and less payments out on things like in work benefits. It's what it should have always been.

Need to start focusing on getting our long term unemployed and school leavers in to work first.

I'd add that we need to get the children in the native population focused on the high-earning and high value jobs. We want an education system that ups the skills of our native population.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I'd add that we need to get the children in the native population focused on the high-earning and high value jobs. We want an education system that ups the skills of our native population.

We don't have enough middle of the road jobs. There are young people who wouldn't fit or don't want to work in an office environment, or work in retail but would prefer to get their hands dirty and do a skilled job in Mechanical Engineering.

There are certainly not enough of these types of jobs around, just have to look on the job sites. Loads of cleaning, retail and carer jobs, but hardly anything in the field I mentioned.

It's why we have drawn so many people from abroad because the pay in the jobs I mention is rubbish, but for somebody from the say Eastern Europe with no skills or a decent education it is the same money as doing a highly skilled job back in their own country.

We are just creating more and more low paid jobs, it doesn't help anyone. Whether it is the Tories or Labour they have both been responsible for ruining Engineering in this country.

 

[cunning fergus]

If you don't consider the number important then why bother putting one in your post?

And if you do consider the number important it might be worth taking like-for-like. The report that was being discussed was about EEA migrants, and the total number of EEA foreign nationals in prison at last count was a touch over 4,200. And that includes over 750 Irish, who would have access to the UK under previous laws anyway. Even if you leave them in that's 4,200 instead of 14,000 or 30% of your stated figure.

And yes, criminals are bad.

Of course the number is important, 14% or 10,700 of our prison population are people not born here.......a truly shocking figure......and that is not considering whether the British prison population is accurate in light of the recent policy by HM Govt (of both flavours) to allow anyone to become a British citizen. Which is incidentally a handy way to manage migration numbers.

The report I attached from the DoJ clearly made reference to foreign nationals, it doesn't matter to me if it was rapist Pole or a murdering Pakistani, as a UK citizen I expect the Govt to protect its citizens as a priority. These statics indicate that is not the case regardless of whether they are from EU or non EU countries.

The facts are that with a foreign prison population the size of the one we have our politicians have failed its citizens........we need to keep the bad people out.