[Politics] Brexit

[Deleted member 22389]

It is well known how statistics work, they can be twisted almost any way you want. The bottom line is that in our economy money moves upwards to those who are already wealthy and well paid. We have a huge amount of people at the base of the pyramid on zero hours contracts or bumping along the bottom on wages that are on or just above the Minimum Wage.
We have sleepwalked in to a situation where we have much less unionisation and are willing to accept whatever money is offered as we feel we are "Lucky to have a Job ". So many of these jobs are shop work or delivery, cleaning or care work doing long hours for poor pay with little chance of any increase above inflation. Amazon have recently started trialling a store format where you can shop for groceries and it will automatically be charged to your Amazon Prime account without going through checkouts. No checkouts means bye bye to all those low paid supermarket jobs. Shelves will be restocked by robots, robot cleaners will patrol the aisles and other than maybe a couple of security guards watching CCTV there will be no staff....

What then happens when the other supermarkets are undercut by Amazon's lower prices ? Those on low wages will flock to Amazon and the other big supermarkets will have to follow suit with the technology or go out of business. So imagine how many staff the likes of Tesco/Asda/Sainsbury's/Waitrose/Morrisons employ and then think of those being reduced by 95% so that we have even less people with low paid jobs... those people will be truly " Lucky to have a Job " and will accept even worse wages and conditions .. and so the spiral continues down.

Throw in to the mix driverless cars which WILL come sooner or later then subsequently driverless lorries and deliveries too. The trains will be totally automated too in order to save wages and make them more profitable. Short term we will become a heavily overpopulated world with a huge proportion of people unemployed and resentful which will probably lead to huge social unrest and possibly revolution and war...

Personally, in my job, I started in Jan 2015 and was told I would have an annual pay review every June... well June 2015 was pretty difficult for the company allegedly so no increase then, although I did not see the books and I was working just as hard if not harder. This year our June pay review has been rolled in to December as there is going to be some "evening out " in order to standardise contracts across the whole group. So, I had a very good review and and I'm optimistic I might get a 2% increase but I fully expect that NOT to be backdated to June so my pay rise will be just 1% ... however, there is no unionisation in my job and it's not encouraged so there is no one to stand up for us, we are all double teamed by 2 directors who will use the current uncertainty to give me the absolute minimum thanks to the current/future trading environment ...

Still, I'm lucky to have a job.

All the more reason to control the numbers of people coming to this country. The economy is what it is. It is the same all over. If we want to ensure everyone has a job in the future then we don't need to be over populated making it harder for british people to find work.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

May have noticed they occupy a rather sensitive area and it would be greatly beneficial to the whole EU (us too) if Turkey didn't go to pot. Spending money to promote democracy in Turkey has failed, fine, but you can't tell me it's a bad idea in principle.

Ah but you may have noticed the billions the EU gave them was specifically part of the accession countries funding. Not forgetting the further billions thrown at them to stem the refugee crisis. They are currently threatening to turn the tap back on.

Throwing good money after bad is never a good idea.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Ah but you may have noticed the billions the EU gave them was specifically part of the accession countries funding. Not forgetting the further billions thrown at them to stem the refugee crisis. They are currently threatening to turn the tap back on.

Throwing good money after bad is never a good idea.

The EU has flushed billions of euros down the toilet. That's ok because the ones making the rules, pushing everyone else around and making Europeans life a misery don't live anywhere near it.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The EU has flushed billions of euros down the toilet. That's ok because the ones making the rules, pushing everyone else around and making Europeans life a misery don't live anywhere near it.

Quite. I see the EU has suspended debt relief for Greece because their government wanted to give some money to the poorest pensioners. Yet they can fund impressive wage increases for the Eurocrats or bung several billion at Turkey.

 

[GT49er]

It is well known how statistics work, they can be twisted almost any way you want. The bottom line is that in our economy money moves upwards to those who are already wealthy and well paid. We have a huge amount of people at the base of the pyramid on zero hours contracts or bumping along the bottom on wages that are on or just above the Minimum Wage.
We have sleepwalked in to a situation where we have much less unionisation and are willing to accept whatever money is offered ......................

I don't know if you are aware, but an awful lot of people in the last couple of years became self employed.
If you are unemployed and on benefits, there are departments that push you to interviews, stop benefits if you don't go and generally try to find ways to get you off the books.
If you move from unemployed, to self employed, and spend at least 16 hours a week promoting yourself, you are entitled to working tax credits at about the same rate as your unemployment benefits No one checks if you are knocking doors or mailing flyers, and you could legitimately claim that any time spent up the pub was "networking" as long as you mention your services.
What we should be looking at, is the welfare spend on unemployment and these "in work" benefits, along with those who genuinely work and receive in work benefits, as this will tell us if the employment these people are in is actually reducing welfare spending, or if our welfare spending is just subsidising employers costs of employment.

Two posts from remainers setting out very eloquently the reasons why 17 million of us voted to leave. All this rubbish was happening while we were going to hell in a handcart in the EU - and nothing we could do about it. We may not be able to make things better under Brexit, but slim chance is better than no chance - and we can vote out a government, whereas we couldn't vote out the powers that be in the juggernaut that is the EU.

 

[studio150]

Two posts from remainers setting out very eloquently the reasons why 17 million of us voted to leave. All this rubbish was happening while we were going to hell in a handcart in the EU - and nothing we could do about it. We may not be able to make things better under Brexit, but slim chance is better than no chance - and we can vote out a government, whereas we couldn't vote out the powers that be in the juggernaut that is the EU.

So your vote to leave was based on UK Government policy on unemployment benefit and working tax credits which are under the full control of the UK Government.
Outstanding.
And to think some have said that leavers didnt understand the compexity of the vote in respect of what they were voting for. How silly of them based on your reason.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

So your vote to leave was based on UK Government policy on unemployment benefit and working tax credits which are under the full control of the UK Government.
Outstanding.
And to think some have said that leavers didnt understand the compexity of the vote in respect of what they were voting for. How silly of them based on your reason.

The government can control how much you get, but what they can't control is the numbers claiming it who come to work here from the EU, that is problem with these stupid free movement rules.

 

[Baldseagull]

All the more reason to control the numbers of people coming to this country. The economy is what it is. It is the same all over. If we want to ensure everyone has a job in the future then we don't need to be over populated making it harder for british people to find work.

There is another equation that worries the government far more, that is those paying taxes, versus those receiving benefits, including pensions. The population increase of migrant workers is helping to meet that balance, the added bonus is that most of these workers will at some point return home, and not become the next wave of pensioners requiring state support. The system we have depends on continuous growth, which at some point will either need to be changed or inevitably collapse,one way of staving that day off, is a wave of contributors to the treasury, who do not later become recipients of benefits.
Government is dishonest when it says it want's to reduce immigration, the EU has been a useful scape goat in this and other areas.

If we had not gotten an exemption from the working time directive 48 hour maximum working week, it seems logical that a company employing 10 people doing a 60 hour week may need to employ a couple more people, and that those 12 employees are less likely to suffer stress and heart problems than those 10.

 

[Baldseagull]

Two posts from remainers setting out very eloquently the reasons why 17 million of us voted to leave. All this rubbish was happening while we were going to hell in a handcart in the EU - and nothing we could do about it. We may not be able to make things better under Brexit, but slim chance is better than no chance - and we can vote out a government, whereas we couldn't vote out the powers that be in the juggernaut that is the EU.

So when the UK government has full power to cut the costs of employment by reducing workers rights, and we are competing more than ever to attract business to set up here, you think Theresa May is going to improve the standards for workers?

 

[Baldseagull]

The government can control how much you get, but what they can't control is the numbers claiming it who come to work here from the EU, that is problem with these stupid free movement rules.

Well, if the referendum result had been remain, those coming would have had to have been contributing for a year before receiving any benefits, and the benefit entitlement they would receive after that would be less than a UK citizen, gradually rising over the next 3 years till equal to UK citizens entitlement.
But the Leave result means that for as long as we are negotiating the deal, and still full members, the situation you describe will continue.

 

[Baldseagull]

Quite. I see the EU has suspended debt relief for Greece because their government wanted to give some money to the poorest pensioners. Yet they can fund impressive wage increases for the Eurocrats or bung several billion at Turkey.

And your leave vote helps this how?

 

[Baldseagull]

The EU has flushed billions of euros down the toilet. That's ok because the ones making the rules, pushing everyone else around and making Europeans life a misery don't live anywhere near it.

Whilst the EU is undoubtedly wasteful of some of it's resources, it does also provide some economy of spending across Europe. Much of the bureaucracy it is famed for is the bureaucracy that every government needs to do, so rather than all 28 nations having departments to do these things, the EU does it once for all of us. It also provides a route to market for drugs, by approving medications for the whole EU, that lowers the cost on the Pharma companies and should result in lower cost treatments.
The UK is likely to hang on to these benefits, and make contributions for the services provided. What will be interesting is to see whether our contributions go up or down, we currently enjoy a rebate on the amount we should pay based on GDP per capita, it is likely we would pay less than the £350M on BoJo's bus, but the figure we actually pay after the rebate is £250M, about what Norway with a smaller GDP pays.

 

[GT49er]

So your vote to leave was based on UK Government policy on unemployment benefit and working tax credits which are under the full control of the UK Government.
Outstanding.
And to think some have said that leavers didnt understand the compexity of the vote in respect of what they were voting for. How silly of them based on your reason.

No it wasn't. Oh dear, oh dear - you do have trouble understanding things that you don't like.

 

[GT49er]

So when the UK government has full power to cut the costs of employment by reducing workers rights, and we are competing more than ever to attract business to set up here, you think Theresa May is going to improve the standards for workers?

No I don't, and I never said that either. Of course the Tories aren't going to go gung-ho for workers' rights. Unfortunately we have to stick with them for the moment, as they're the only party that (hopefully) won't try to weasel their way round to overturning the referendum. Once we're finally out of the EU, though, we can kick them out.

 

[studio150]

No it wasn't. Oh dear, oh dear - you do have trouble understanding things that you don't like.

Two posts from remainers setting out very eloquently the reasons why 17 million of us voted to leave.

Seems Black and White in your own words, but I suspect that like many leavers on here you don't wish to acknowledge what you have actually written.

Fine by me. I obviously need to learn leave speak given that it bears no similarity to English.

 

[studio150]

€50bn settlement to cover liabilities on leaving the EU.
No doubt the leavers will explain why this is a bargain.
Contrary to The Who song definitely not the best I've ever had.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

€50bn settlement to cover liabilities on leaving the EU.
No doubt the leavers will explain why this is a bargain.
Contrary to The Who song definitely not the best I've ever had.

That will be clawed back in no time when the free-trade deals with Peru and Albania are signed.

 

[portslade seagull]

That will be clawed back in no time when the free-trade deals with Peru and Albania are signed.

That's good news then, at last your seeing the light !!!

 

[pastafarian]

€50bn settlement to cover liabilities on leaving the EU.
No doubt the leavers will explain why this is a bargain. .

i heard it was €200bn
€50bn in comparison is a bargain

 

[BigGully]

i heard it was €200bn
€50bn in comparison is a bargain

Well it seems we were into them for a cool £149bn back in 2012 too, so quite how 'they' can somehow draw attention to some trumped up consequence of Brexit without acknowledging the perpetual financial burden of remaining is laughable.