[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

Looks like Juncker is making a **** of himself ..... we're clearly going to have a better relationship with the worlds most powerful nation than the EU. Thank god we won't be part of Juncker's failed club !

 

[yxee]

9th phone call after Australia, South Korea,,,,,, just shows how unimportant the UK is to the USA

Unbelievable. This isn't year 9.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Looks like Juncker is making a **** of himself ..... we're clearly going to have a better relationship with the worlds most powerful nation than the EU. Thank god we won't be part of Juncker's failed club !

Juncker is an absolute idiot.

 

[Billy the Fish]

The "special relationship" is just a media soundbite that hasn't been relevant since Bush and Blair, because it suited them politically - Blair needed Bush to inflate his ego and allow him to be important internationally. Bush needed Blair to legitimise his war.

Our relationship with America changes with every change of government. Obama hasn't given two sh*ts about us for the last 8 years, so it surprises me that the media are pulling the "special relationship" out the bag again.

I don't think anyone can really guess what America's foreign policy will be at the moment, remember it's not just Trump and his campaign team any more - it's the whole Republican government, the military, the CIA the civil service etc etc etc..
Trump can't just walk in and change everything overnight, Obama couldn't make wholesale changes and he had 8 years!

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

So it seems the Government are going to argue that once invoked, Article 50 can be reversed, and on that basis invoking Article 50 doesn't require an act of Parliament.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ould-be-reversed-government-lawyers-may-argue

Seems odd, its the first I have heard it can be revoked, we have been told all along that it can't? Will be interesting to see what the Supreme Court decides...

From that little snippet, there is nothing in there that says it can be revoked either.

And, as said elsewhere, if we did trigger it and then changes our minds, Europe would need to agree it as well. The response might be "tough", not just through sour grapes, but because of other things going on in the meantime. Basically we couldn't take anything for granted.

 

[GT49er]

From that little snippet, there is nothing in there that says it can be revoked either.

And, as said elsewhere, if we did trigger it and then changes our minds, Europe would need to agree it as well. The response might be "tough", not just through sour grapes, but because of other things going on in the meantime. Basically we couldn't take anything for granted.

And even if they did consider letting us back in, it would be with ever increasing political union towards the desired aim of a United States of Europe, the Schengen agreement, the Euro and none of the existing special opt-outs. Oh yes, not forgetting the European army.
Think even some of the remainers would baulk at that, eh?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

The "special relationship" is just a media soundbite that hasn't been relevant since Bush and Blair, because it suited them politically - Blair needed Bush to inflate his ego and allow him to be important internationally. Bush needed Blair to legitimise his war.

Our relationship with America changes with every change of government. Obama hasn't given two sh*ts about us for the last 8 years, so it surprises me that the media are pulling the "special relationship" out the bag again.

I don't think anyone can really guess what America's foreign policy will be at the moment, remember it's not just Trump and his campaign team any more - it's the whole Republican government, the military, the CIA the civil service etc etc etc..
Trump can't just walk in and change everything overnight, Obama couldn't make wholesale changes and he had 8 years!

Obama did care about us. He cared enough to threaten us with all sorts of terrible things like going to the back of the queue if we voted to leave the EU. That worked well.

In addition, you mention that Obama couldn't do a lot in 8 years, that's because he only enjoyed the support of a democratic majority in congress for the first two years of his presidency. Trump, when he takes power, will be the most powerful president since 1928.

 

[yxee]

So it seems the Government are going to argue that once invoked, Article 50 can be reversed, and on that basis invoking Article 50 doesn't require an act of Parliament.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ould-be-reversed-government-lawyers-may-argue

Seems odd, its the first I have heard it can be revoked, we have been told all along that it can't? Will be interesting to see what the Supreme Court decides...

Article 50 is not "invoked", article 50 describes a process of withdrawal starting with a notice of intention to leave, from the UK to the EU. Nothing in the article states that this notice is binding.

From that little snippet, there is nothing in there that says it can be revoked either.

And, as said elsewhere, if we did trigger it and then changes our minds, Europe would need to agree it as well. The response might be "tough", not just through sour grapes, but because of other things going on in the meantime. Basically we couldn't take anything for granted.

I'm not aware of this. Where does it say there's no going back after giving notification of intent to leave? The article makes it clear that we will remain in the EU until the process is concluded, not as soon as the notification is given...

 

[Baldseagull]

And even if they did consider letting us back in, it would be with ever increasing political union towards the desired aim of a United States of Europe, the Schengen agreement, the Euro and none of the existing special opt-outs. Oh yes, not forgetting the European army.
Think even some of the remainers would baulk at that, eh?

,
The concessions agreed with Cameron on being specifically excluded from closer Union, without being pushed out, to deny EU migrants benefits until 4 years of residency, to pay Child benefit at the rate of the nation the child resides in etc. were only to come in to effect if Britain announced an intention to remain in the EU.

We could be in the bizarre situation that because we are in negotiation to leave, we are forced to adopt policy that brings us closer political Union. If we then later reverse article 50, we could end up closer to the EU than ever before due to the leave result in the referendum!

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

We could be in the bizarre situation that because we are in negotiation to leave, we are forced to adopt policy that brings us closer political Union. If we then later reverse article 50, we could end up closer to the EU than ever before due to the leave result in the referendum!

In that case we'd need another referendum as no-one who voted knew what would happen if we remained.

 

[Baldseagull]

Obama did care about us. He cared enough to threaten us with all sorts of terrible things like going to the back of the queue if we voted to leave the EU. That worked well.

In addition, you mention that Obama couldn't do a lot in 8 years, that's because he only enjoyed the support of a democratic majority in congress for the first two years of his presidency. Trump, when he takes power, will be the most powerful president since 1928.

2 points, firstly, Obama was making no threat, he was merely pointing out that current US negotiations with the EU would take priority.
Secondly, although the party Trump represents also have a majority in the Senate, he has spent much of the campaign slagging off Republican senators, he has some bridges to build first if he wants to build that wall.

 

[Baldseagull]

In that case we'd need another referendum as no-one who voted knew what would happen if we remained.

We knew that we would not be dragged into closer political Union, we knew that we could avoid paying benefits to EU migrants until they had paid in to the system, and we knew we could trade in the EU without restriction.
There was a lot more certainty with remaining.

A combined EU armed forces could have seen the EU footing the bill for the Trident upgrade, think of all the buses with anti EU propaganda on the side we could buy with that saving.

 

[GT49er]

,
The concessions agreed with Cameron on being specifically excluded from closer Union, without being pushed out, to deny EU migrants benefits until 4 years of residency, to pay Child benefit at the rate of the nation the child resides in etc. were only to come in to effect if Britain announced an intention to remain in the EU.

We could be in the bizarre situation that because we are in negotiation to leave, we are forced to adopt policy that brings us closer political Union. If we then later reverse article 50, we could end up closer to the EU than ever before due to the leave result in the referendum!

Yes, that's what I said........................................

 

[Baldseagull]

Yes, that's what I said........................................

Yes, you did sort of didn't you? I stuffed it up a bit, I was trying to make the distinction that it would not take us to leave and come back, just the fact that we have not said we are staying means that the Cameron deal is off.

 

[Soulman]

Give it up. We are on Leave.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

2 points, firstly, Obama was making no threat, he was merely pointing out that current US negotiations with the EU would take priority.
Secondly, although the party Trump represents also have a majority in the Senate, he has spent much of the campaign slagging off Republican senators, he has some bridges to build first if he wants to build that wall.

Of course he was threatening us. What is a threat? He said that if we didn't behave ourselves, there would be direct consequences from the good old USA. That is a threat, remain voters may not like that, but it was a threat.

The republicans and Trump will find a way.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

We knew that we would not be dragged into closer political Union, we knew that we could avoid paying benefits to EU migrants until they had paid in to the system, and we knew we could trade in the EU without restriction.
There was a lot more certainty with remaining.

A combined EU armed forces could have seen the EU footing the bill for the Trident upgrade, think of all the buses with anti EU propaganda on the side we could buy with that saving.

I put the dunce smiley there as I was joking.

But on your point, our politicians have lied time and time again about the development of the EU. I do not trust them one little bit, and I trust the ideologists in the EU even less so. Cameron's agreement meant diddly squat and it appears it meant diddly squat to the majority of British people as well.

 

[yxee]

A combined EU armed forces could have seen the EU footing the bill for the Trident upgrade

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Something that I was disappointed didn't happen in the 90's may well occur due to Brexit:

The Independent: UK could become part of new trade area with the US, Canada and Mexico after Brexit. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw-uf6sTA

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So it seems the Government are going to argue that once invoked, Article 50 can be reversed, and on that basis invoking Article 50 doesn't require an act of Parliament.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ould-be-reversed-government-lawyers-may-argue

Seems odd, its the first I have heard it can be revoked, we have been told all along that it can't? Will be interesting to see what the Supreme Court decides...

Very strange, and to me illogical, argument.