[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

The funny thing is that by delaying it may Hasten the collapse of the European union. As it may influence other peoples in elections (France) & referendum (Italy - which may lead to another election) voting anti Europe & establishment as they see the politicians & elite trying to scupper the will of the masses.

Interesting times ahead - & that's without thinking about trump

The ironic thing is that this decision actually makes the country more unstable. Something the remainers have accused us leavers of by our choice to vote leave. Doesn't seem to bother the remainers so much now strangely.

 

[pastafarian]

Defenders of British law upset by British law

nothing to be upset about.
article 50 will still be invoked
we will still be leaving The EU

its frustrating though that the process will probably now incur some delays from the planned timeline, when the focus should have been to crack on with invoking 50 by march next year and getting on with negotiations and moving forward.
The delays will probably hurt some people. No doubt some remainers will be happy with that.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

It's the EU way. Keep having referendums until you finally get the 'right' result.

I thought that was more that you were told the outcome of the vote without actually having the hassle of holding a vote in the first place and where your made to go along with the decision with no say in the matter.

Seems like some people prefer this system because it clearly means that they don't have to take any responsibility for themselves and also that they prefer faceless unelected individuals with no public accountability in this country to run their lives and tell them what to do and how to live because it saves them from having to think about it and it's potential impact on lives. They must know whats best for someone living here because they have a job deciding these sorts of things BUT no experience of life here (or equally any other part of the EU that's affected by their one size fits all decisions, no matter how harmful that may be to some parts of the EU)

Basically it's their utopian Nanny state running their lives with little or no input by those affected in this Country and it means that the EU supporters can all pretend that its all democratic but are just kidding themselves. (ie we're not to be trusted to actually think for ourselves because we might make a wrong decision here or there along the way, even if the ultimate outcome is far better than if we did nothing)

 

[Guy Fawkes]

nothing to be upset about.
article 50 will still be invoked
we will still be leaving The EU

its frustrating though that the process will probably now incur some delays from the planned timeline, when the focus should have been to crack on with invoking 50 by march next year and getting on with negotiations and moving forward.
The delays will probably hurt some people. No doubt some remainers will be happy with that.

The markets don't like uncertainty, businesses don't like uncertainty as it makes them nervous and unsure whether to invest here or more their assets elsewhere. All his decision has done is to delay the reaching of certainty again which will be whe the final outcome of the negotiations are known and how that will affect things like trade (tariffs? able to recruit the right staff in, etc)

 

[Dick Head]

Defenders of British law upset by British law

In a nutshell.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

It's the EU way. Keep having referendums until you finally get the 'right' result.

It most certainly is. Well if this action means we don't leave the EU at all now, then there will be a lot of explaining to do. You just can't let down 17 million people like this, it's really really bad for democracy. It means we no longer have a voice, for anything. Trust with our so called politicians has already been severely damaged over the years, and now it is set to be damaged even further. As for the EU once again it just highlights the reasons why we need to leave, for all the bullshit red tape that is has created and more depressingly back here some of the most vocal opponents to us leaving have come from the Labour Party and the Lib Dems, the ones who are supposed to stand up for democracy and stand up for the working man, what a fing joke they are. UKIP are coming back now, so expect a massive protest vote.

 

[melias shoes]

We will be having another general election next May at this rate

You could be right.

 

[melias shoes]

Banter's one thing but I find this sort of remark from Leavers rather lowering.

You posted that in response to something I said about the lives of three family members being diminished by an end to freedom of movement. Just for the record, the broad facts are these.

1. A 17 year old A level student in north Lincolnshire. Her two-centre Modern Languages degree course is being affected by funding problems arising from the Brexit vote.
2. A married couple in London. Both running small businesses. Were planning to move to Amsterdam to live and set up mirror businesses. Plans on hold.
3. A married couple in Brighton. Job offer from Germany received. Tremendous opportunity for them and their children. Job being turned down because of potential problems with paying for their childrens' education.

There is nothing particular about these cases. To an extent they are first world problems. But they do underline that being a remainer is not about fear or an obsession with money or some other negative as so many Brexiters seem to think. It is about horizons closing down and a feeling that our back yard is getting smaller. Disagree by all means, but jeering simply diminishes your case.

That's as maybe but you didn't post that originally did you.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

...

Exactly Nigel.

 

[Soulman]

Corrupt? No, probably not, just proving (as has been done so many times) that the law is an ass, and cannot apply common sense.

"M'lords, you have before you a very rich woman who doesn't like the result of the referendum who feels she personally may suffer some financial discomfort as a result. She has a whole team of top barristers, many of whom will be personally known to you. She would like you to put a spanner in the works of the democratic referendum and rule that 17.4 million votes don't count (after all, m'lud, they're not the votes of (rich) people like us.)"

Common sense answer? "P*** off!"

Judges answer? "OK, let's have a look then, see if we can find a loophole, and uphold the self-importance of the judiciary."

Good post.

 

[wellquickwoody]

The ironic thing is that this decision actually makes the country more unstable. Something the remainers have accused us leavers of by our choice to vote leave. Doesn't seem to bother the remainers so much now strangely.

The initial vote to leave was the catalyst for instability, every twist and turn in whatever direction just increases the problem. This could be an absolute cluster fxxk of millstones around the UK and its' economy for many years. Well done everybody.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

At least we leavers can now blame remain for any ensuing economic problems.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

At least we leavers can now blame remain for any ensuing economic problems.

That sounds like a bit of a stretch.

All this is about is following the law. It does not mean Brexit doesn't happen, it just means it is done correctly, legally and not rushed or bodged.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

That sounds like a bit of a stretch.

All this is about is following the law. It does not mean Brexit doesn't happen, it just means it is done correctly, legally and not rushed or bodged.

I know, I was joking!

 

[beorhthelm]

I think it makes a mockery of having a public vote if the Courts can invalidate its outcome and leave the decision to Parliament where it can then be overturned if they so wish and therefore going by their own personal preference rather than with the majority result - as we saw, the result showed that it wasn't a one party issue and that all parties were divided on the subject so how do you have a General Election on this if our Politics is based on Left / Right politics ?

the court has not invalidated the outcome. the case brought questioned if the government had the power to invoke article 50, and revoke previous legislation. it found it does not have that power and must gain power through Parliament. the cause of this is poor legislation, not the courts doing the job of interpreting the law. as a eurosceptic of over 20 years, im pleased to see our courts and our parliament being the arbiters of our law, not EU imposing rules through backdoor instruments. the government must have known they have a weak case and focus on a rapid passage through parliament rather than waste more time with Supreme court with no new legal argument to make.

 

[pastafarian]

Banter's one thing but I find this sort of remark from Leavers rather lowering.

You posted that in response to something I said about the lives of three family members being diminished by an end to freedom of movement. Just for the record, the broad facts are these.

1. A 17 year old A level student in north Lincolnshire. Her two-centre Modern Languages degree course is being affected by funding problems arising from the Brexit vote.
2. A married couple in London. Both running small businesses. Were planning to move to Amsterdam to live and set up mirror businesses. Plans on hold.
3. A married couple in Brighton. Job offer from Germany received. Tremendous opportunity for them and their children. Job being turned down because of potential problems with paying for their childrens' education.

There is nothing particular about these cases. To an extent they are first world problems. But they do underline that being a remainer is not about fear or an obsession with money or some other negative as so many Brexiters seem to think. It is about horizons closing down and a feeling that our back yard is getting smaller. Disagree by all means, but jeering simply diminishes your case.

Arguments aside and if its possible to raise the flag of ceasefire for a moment ....out of interest what are the pitfalls with moving to Germany in your 3rd part

A friend of mine got a very good in Germany some months ago and has been commuting. The family have decided in the last couple of months to take the plunge and move out there permanently. House is on the market and they are just set to go.

She was explaining to me her reasoning one night and one of the reasons was if her children decide to stay on there after school and go to university in Germany the tuition will be free as tuition fees were abolished recently for all international students at state universities.(obviously state education is free at school as residents)

Is there something they have missed with potential problems arising in the future? What have your married couple from Brighton found out with regards to paying for education?
If my friends have missed something crucial i would appreciate your feedback and so i can give them the heads up.

 

[pastafarian]

It most certainly is. Well if this action means we don't leave the EU at all now, then there will be a lot of explaining to do. You just can't let down 17 million people like this, it's really really bad for democracy. It means we no longer have a voice, for anything. Trust with our so called politicians has already been severely damaged over the years, and now it is set to be damaged even further. As for the EU once again it just highlights the reasons why we need to leave, for all the bullshit red tape that is has created and more depressingly back here some of the most vocal opponents to us leaving have come from the Labour Party and the Lib Dems, the ones who are supposed to stand up for democracy and stand up for the working man, what a fing joke they are. UKIP are coming back now, so expect a massive protest vote.

This is a good post

It must be remembered though there are two sets of people on the remain camp. There are remainers who want parliament to vote and give permission for May to trigger article 50.....which is fair enough and then there are the remoaners who see it as an opportunity to throw a spanner in the works, derail the whole thing and get it stopped.......im looking at you Soubry and Lammy.(and a hardcore on here)

The latter group are playing with fire and they are clueless to the repercussions. You mention 17 million will be disappointed if the vote is ignored. I would add on 16 million from the remain side as well. It would be the death of democracy in this country......what would be the point in voting for anything again knowing it means sod all.

 

[Soulman]

This is a good post

It must be remembered though there are two sets of people on the remain camp. There are remainers who want parliament to vote and give permission for May to trigger article 50.....which is fair enough and then there are the remoaners who see it as an opportunity to throw a spanner in the works, derail the whole thing and get it stopped.......im looking at you Soubry and Lammy.(and a hardcore on here)

The latter group are playing with fire and they are clueless to the repercussions. You mention 17 million will be disappointed if the vote is ignored. I would add on 16 million from the remain side as well. It would be the death of democracy in this country......what would be the point in voting for anything again knowing it means sod all.

True. No point.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

This is a good post

It must be remembered though there are two sets of people on the remain camp. There are remainers who want parliament to vote and give permission for May to trigger article 50.....which is fair enough and then there are the remoaners who see it as an opportunity to throw a spanner in the works, derail the whole thing and get it stopped.......im looking at you Soubry and Lammy.(and a hardcore on here)

The latter group are playing with fire and they are clueless to the repercussions. You mention 17 million will be disappointed if the vote is ignored. I would add on 16 million from the remain side as well. It would be the death of democracy in this country......what would be the point in voting for anything again knowing it means sod all.

It will also, very dangerously fuel right wing politics. People haven't liked UKIP for sometimes overstepping the mark, but this decision could potentially set a course to unleash white extremism in this country. So far, the UK has fared very well compared to France and Germany where far more divisive politicians have flourished. If there is the perception that a democratic vote has been ignored, then I am pessimistic about the ramifications.

 

[nicko31]

You could be right.

Think an election could be possible, pretty sure by Tory MP would lose to the Libs tomorrow.

Bring on the Labour, Lib, SNP grand coalition..