Who doesn't allow other opinions? Is this a rather weak attempt at irony?
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[Politics] Brexit - Deal we have or Rejoin CU/SM
- Thread starter WATFORD zero
- Start date
GrizzlingGammon
Well-known member
- Dec 15, 2018
- 1,806
Opinions are fine when backed up with facts. Facts are everything. And in this case it is the weight of facts that counts.
GrizzlingGammon
Well-known member
- Dec 15, 2018
- 1,806
This is what the dimwitted say when they can't back up or argue their opinion. Mainly because it's based on no facts.
chickens
Intending to survive this time of asset strippers
- Oct 12, 2022
- 1,876
It is bizarre isn’t it? Somebody states their opinion, has it challenged, and instantly screams “why won’t you let me enjoy my opinion in peace, you keep telling me my opinion is wrong!”
The very point of discourse is to subject opinions to outside scrutiny, possibly take on new information, and maybe revise your opinions or feel reinforced in them. Nobody has been censored, nobody has been prevented from stating their view.
If lots of people have immediately come back to challenge a view, that suggests that at the very least it’s an unpopular view, if they come back with multiple facts and figures challenging a view, then I think they’re gently trying to suggest to whoever originally posted that they may have missed some detail and been mistaken in some of their assumptions.
Some of us even support the same football team, though Bozza’s poll last night suggests there’s at least two closet Chelsea fans on the board.
....is the word
So let's just imagine for one horrible moment the UK was still in the EU, unemployment significantly higher (spain 11%), lower wage growth, never while in the EU have wages reached 3% growth per year, inflation same, uk inflation mid table compared to individual EU states (Austria 11%) the grass is definitely not greener in the EUSSR,, solidary agreement the UK would be forced to accept at least 30,000 migrants per year illegally entering the EU or pay £20,000 per migrant that we don't exceptThere's really very little reason getting into debate with posters like you, but I'll bite.
The pay rises received by many are either enforced through industrial action or due to a shortage of labour, which while driving up wages in some sectors is doing nothing to address inflation or productivity. As a result, our economy is tanking. Expect to see more recessionary pressures in Q3/4 of this year.
As to the one million illegal immigrants landing on the shores of Italy, Spain, and GREECE, this is caused by war, economics and climate change. The people will be arriving on the shores of Europe (and therefore the UK), regardless of membership of the EU. And the red tape you refer to from Brussels (tape that we were involved in creating through the democratic processes in place when we had MEPs), do you think that tape has disappeared? Do you think we now trade goods with the EU on our terms now? We still adhere to EU regulations when trading with the EU, but we've just created more work for ourselves and partners in the EU who want to trade with us, and that drives up costs.
As to other trade deals, there have been none of note, and as the US told us, there was never going to be.
By all means keep trotting out the 'remoaner' language. It's boring, but predictable.
What we need to do now that we're out is think practically and logically. We need to cast aside the idea that we are some powerhouse and ask how we can start to strengthen the economy. Entering a customs union with our biggest trading neighbour to reduce costs would make sense. Loosening rules on immigration to attract the skills we need from the EU makes sense. Finding ways to reduce the tax burden on industries that are valuable like R&D, Technology, Science, Clean Energy solutions etc. makes sense. Investing in addressing the causes of immigration rather than stopping boats, makes sense.
As to your £16billion pound figure, it sounds like a bargain if you look at what Bloomberg (those arch left wingers!) think it is costing the UK.
Brexit is Costing the UK £100 Billion a Year in Lost Output
Brexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.www.bloomberg.com
As I say, no point in debating with people like you. I doubt you'll ever listen to a reason. It's easier for you just to say that I hate this country which I love.
nicko31
Well-known member
This is not the Guardian, so doesn't really fit into the 'Guardian' claims desperate Brexit partisans are pedalling but then they don't accept Brexit reality anyway..... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-referendum-vote-timeline-b2286381.html
Your spelling, grammar and punctuation is on a par with that spoof PPF account.
The lyrics to this need a slight adjustment
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nicko31
Well-known member
You don't really need an opinion on Brexit.
You either believe in observable reality or you don't...
Honestly? Do you really think the good people of this country deserve 47 years of self harm because a misled, gullible majority voted for self harm in 2016?
The other issue is that you are intent on relying on feelings in the future rather than argumentation; that's what got us into this mess in the first place!
You do understand why we’ve seen wage growth don’t you?
And you’re cherry picking countries for stats to make a skewed point.
You are better off talking about unemployment rates being a 6% in the EU versus 4.4% in the UK. But then you’d have to explore issues uncomfortable issues like strong unions keeping demand for labour lower because of comparatively high wages and costs bought about by the working time directive (which we opted out of while in the EU all the while protesting that ‘we’ve lost our sovereignty!!!’) And, you’d have to explore why employment levels are higher in the uk and look at our shrinking high value jobs market and realise that we’ve lost a workforce and not gained highly skilled jobs for working people.
In the last year our GDP hasn’t once outstripped the EU. I wonder why? All these amazing stats and we’re underperforming.
We have an opportunity to build a new UK outside the EU, but we have to make sensible choices and not ideologically driven mad ones..
Give it a go - you never know you might like it.
HillBarnTillIDie
Member
- Jul 2, 2011
- 59
It’s not finished… and of course it wasn’t ever going to be plain sailing, but.. it’s what the majority of people wanted.
Still relying on emotions? Don’t you believe in logic and pragmatism then? Go on, give it a go and you might enjoy the intellectual journey.
Or were falsely persuaded was in their best interests
Was Omid Djalili referring to you here?
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