[Travel] Booking protection scam/help

[LockStock]

We were booked to go to Leonardslea gardens light up trail on Sunday just gone at 5PM.

As the local council had not gritted the roads, we couldn’t make it. There was also an Amber weather warning in place.

We have tried to claim on the booking protection insurance but have been told it doesn’t meet the requirements. Looks like dying is about the only thing they will cover you for .

It’s not a huge amount of money, £95. But feel like I’m being ripped off.

Any advise greatly appreciated.

Ticket Refund Protection – UK – Secure My Booking

securemybooking.com

Link is for the T&Cs

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It mentions adverse weather conditions. I would complain again and take it further.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Can you share their specific response to this (in their covered for section)

Adverse Weather preventing the Ticket Holder’s attendance at the Event

 

[studio150]

It mentions adverse weather conditions. I would complain again and take it further.

It's not covered, the definition of adverse weather is:

• Adverse Weather means extreme weather where a severe travel alert has been issued on the day of the Event by either the Local Authority or Government of the Country in which the Event is taking place preventing your ability to travel to the Venue.

An Amber weather warning is not a severe travel alert, and whether the roads were gritted or not is immaterial.

You always need to read the full particulars and not just rely on the headlines.

 

[studio150]

Can you share their specific response to this (in their covered for section)

Adverse Weather preventing the Ticket Holder’s attendance at the Event

See my comments above, adverse weather is in bold and a defined term you need to look at the definition of adverse weather.

 

[LockStock]

See my comments above, adverse weather is in bold and a defined term you need to look at the definition of adverse weather.

Surely the fact the roads in the local area were not safe to travel, we called Leonardslea who advised the roads in the area were quite bad. Some of the roads in Patcham where we live we totally impassable.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Surely the fact the roads in the local area were not safe to travel, we called Leonardslea who advised the roads in the area were quite bad. Some of the roads in Patcham where we live we totally impassable.

Anything / warnings on the local authority website that could validate (appreciate it’s clutching)

 

[Bridcutt]

I'd charge back through my bank, f*** them

 

[LockStock]

I'd charge back through my bank, f*** them

Can I do that when paid on debit card? Wouldn’t usually want to be a prick but they’ve been really unhelpful.

 

[Bozza]

Have you tried with Leonardslee direct? Put on a bit of a sob story and see if they can accommodate you on another date/time. I appreciate they've probably sold out, hence the need to lay it on a bit thick and try and get a sympathy vote.

I suspect you won't get anywhere with the ticket insurer, so try another route to get something for your money.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Daughter and children went last night and had a lovely time

 

[amexer]

I

Have you tried with Leonardslee direct? Put on a bit of a sob story and see if they can accommodate you on another date/time. I appreciate they've probably sold out, hence the need to lay it on a bit thick and try and get a sympathy vote.

I suspect you won't get anywhere with the ticket insurer, so try another route to get something for your money.

Good idea The only defence i can see insurers having is if when you booked it was within this very cold spell

 

[drew]

I

Good idea The only defence i can see insurers having is if when you booked it was within this very cold spell

Not sure that's right. Their terms and conditions define what is considered adverse weather and the circumstances don't meet that criteria.

Most of these types of insurance are a waste of time (bit like the one for Albion tickets).

 

[studio150]

Surely the fact the roads in the local area were not safe to travel, we called Leonardslea who advised the roads in the area were quite bad. Some of the roads in Patcham where we live we totally impassable.

Unfortunately not, 'quite bad' is not the same as extreme weather and no severe travel alert had been issued. The amber alert is about thinking ahead and avoiding unnecessary travel, it is not an instruction to not travel.

 

[Bodian]

Maybe ask them about:

• Travel Delay on the day of the Event due to a cause outside of the control of each of the Ticket Holders that solely and directly prevents the Ticket Holder’s continued transit to the Event.

That's defined as:

• Travel Delay means a delay commencing on the day of the Event where you are starting your travel in the country where your Event is being held.

Doesn't say you have to be travelling by public transport, and roads not being gritted is outside your control.

Mind you - what's a 'Program'?

"Severe Travel Alert" is an odd one though. Has a severe travel alert ever been issued in the UK because of adverse weather? If not, then the insurance is meaningless on that ground really. Indeed, what is a 'severe travel alert'. Has one actually ever been issued for any reason within the UK.

Red/Amber/Yellow warnings - none of them are 'severe travel alerts'. But Amber warning on the Met Office site says: Amber Warning: There is an increased likelihood of impacts from severe weather, which could potentially disrupt your plans. This means there is the possibility of travel delays, road and rail closures, power cuts and the potential risk to life and property. You should think about changing your plans and taking action to protect yourself and your property. You may want to consider the impact of the weather on your family and your community and whether there is anything you need to do ahead of the severe weather to minimise the impact. So, it does have the word 'severe' in it.

I think your insurance was pointless, and a bit of a con. Quite amazingly it does not cover cancellation of the event or closure of the venue?!

 

[Bodian]

Unfortunately not, 'quite bad' is not the same as extreme weather and no severe travel alert had been issued. The amber alert is about thinking ahead and avoiding unnecessary travel, it is not an instruction to not travel.

What is a 'severe travel alert'?

 

[Zeberdi]

As the local council had not gritted the roads, we couldn’t make it. There was also an Amber weather warning in place.

Reading the policy, here are a few thoughts, (based on my rather limited LLB qualification in Law and even less years practice working for solicitors!), I’m afraid it looks to me anyway, that your decision not to travel because the roads weren’t gritted might be argued by the ticket insurers as coming under several excluding criteria:

1/. Firstly, it is very ‘open‘ worded policy and has a catchall phrase that states you are not covered for:

• “Any reason not listed in “What am I covered for?”

So you are correct, it’s quite a narrowly and carefully worded policy with an infinite number of possible exclusions so you do need to argue specifically the Adverse Weather clause as applicable or actually challenge it’s contractual ‘fairness’ IMHO !!

2/. There was no ‘travel alerts’ at the time so therefore there was no Adverse Weather

However, this is a logical fallacy for a start and the wording on the definitions is vague to me - they have no definition for ’severe weather’ that matches up with anything that could be defined as a ‘severe travel alert’ from the National Highways (who advise the Met Office on severe weather impacts on travel )

Thus definition of ‘Adverse Weather’ is ambiguous and unclear and should be interpreted in your favour:
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-ri...urance-policy-can-i-challenge-it-ap6x81z7kdzc

“Often it's the interpretation of a clause which is crucial.
It's up to the insurer to make sure that their policies are clear. If they fail to do so, they run the risk of the clause being interpreted in the policyholder's favour. Under the FCA Handbook of Rules and Guidance, insurance companies must communicate information to you which is clear, fair and not misleading. If an exclusion clause contained in your policy is ambiguous, then that ambiguity must be interpreted against the insurance company, and in your favour.”

I’m not aware that Severe travel Alerts’ get issued in UK - what even are they? This sounds like fluff to me. It is the Met Office that issues ‘Severe Weather Alerts’ (eg Amber) and it is The National Highways that informs the Met Office on road travel advice - taken from the Met Office advice on ‘Severe Weather’ : “Here we provide advice from the experts at National Highways, RAC, and the Institute of Advanced Motorists. https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weathe...sonal-advice/travel/driving-in-severe-weather)

Driving in snow and ice​

• Only travel if really necessary. Snow ploughs are unable to get through if the road or motorway is full of stationary traffic, so do not make journeys unless completely necessary to give National Highways and local authorities the space they need to help you on your journey
• Avoid steep hills and exposed roads hills and exposed areas are likely to present more challenging driving conditions in snow and ice

This is from the National Highways website’s advice on travelling in ‘severe weather’ and what ‘severe weather’ might include:
“During severe winter weather, when there may be snow and ice around, please follow this advic

• Stick to the main roads where you can and only travel if necessary.”

Travelling in winter - National Highways

Winter driving advice

nationalhighways.co.uk

You could argue that travelling to a venue for entertainment is not ‘necessary’ travel under the National Highways own guidelines on what to do in severe weather.

3/. The reason you did not travel (or continue to) presumably was directly due to the fear of having an accident (correct me if I’m wrong) - you were not ‘prevented’ from travelling but ‘chose’ (sensibly!) not to.

There is a difference. An Amber warning is only an advisory - it does not ‘disallow’ travel. There is actually a clause stating that ‘fear of catching Covid’ is not a satisfyingly criteria, which lends weight to the idea that ‘fear of anything’ would not qualify for a legitimate reason not to attend an event.

Btw - Only about 41% of roads are gritted in any given Council area, so people can and do use un-gritted roads in bad/icy/snowy weather - So, unless the roads were actually blocked/closed/completely impassable or you were intending to travel by public transport that was cancelled/severely delayed, it would seem you would have an uphill battle to have a straight forward claim under the wording of the policy - ’just’ being icy or with snow would seem to be excluded although if you had had an accident en route, no doubt your tickets would be refunded under the ‘prior accident’ clause in the policy but your claim for damage and injury would obviously be against the Council). Under the Highways Act 1980 (England and Wales) Section 41(1A) states –

"a highway authority is under a duty to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that safe passage along a highway is not endangered by snow or ice."

It may be that you could claim against the Council for the loss of the tickets if you could argue that the roads were in a dangerous state but it’s a stretch!

——————-

To summarise: Personally I would still continue to argue with the ticket insurers on the following points that:

1. The Adverse Weather’ clause is an unfair contract term in the policy due to its ambiguous nature (see the law on Unfair Contract terms in insurance policies above)
2. It requires an unacceptable and unreasonable risk to travel before being able to claim under it (and to do so would be counter to the National Highways advice in the event of severe weather, eg snow and ice to ‘only travel if necessary’.
3. ’Adverse Weather is backed up by the contemporaneous Amber Warning of Severe Weather from the Met Office who get their travel advice from the National Highways.
4. Driving at night in snow and ice is even more hazardous in those conditions as temperatures fall dramatically creating black ice etc. Were you taking kids? I would add if so that even greater precautions are required.
5. I would summarise that it would be an unfair term of the Policy contract to interpret the ‘Adverse weather’ clause as only being activated under the policy if the insured has first to risk being either stranded en route and suffering hypothermia (lay it on thick!), or risk a reasonably foreseeable accident that more likely than not, could cause personal injury or even death trying to get to the venue to use his tickets!

Good luck - and for what it is worth, I think you were utterly sensible not to risk travel in those conditions- your personal
safety (and other road user’s!) is paramount and much more important than driving in a car at night on icy roads (with kids?) to attend an event.

Finally, if the insurer sticks to their interpretation, I would inform them that you wish to refer the matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

 

[Zeberdi]

I think your insurance was pointless, and a bit of a con. Quite amazingly it does not cover cancellation of the event or closure of the venue?!

I agree with everything you say above but on this point, event organisers/venues have their own insurance against events being cancelled or venues closing and the refunds for tickets would come from them. Basic principle in insurance is to try and avoid ‘double insurance’ so not surprising these scenarios are excluded from a ticket insurance. (In fact during Covid, this particular insurance market was propped up by the Government).

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Reading the policy, here are a few thoughts, (based on my rather limited LLB qualification in Law and even less years practice working for solicitors!), I’m afraid it looks to me anyway, that your decision not to travel because the roads weren’t gritted might be argued by the ticket insurers as coming under several excluding criteria:

1/. Firstly, it is very ‘open‘ worded policy and has a catchall phrase that states you are not covered for:

• “Any reason not listed in “What am I covered for?”

So you are correct, it’s quite a narrowly and carefully worded policy with an infinite number of possible exclusions so you do need to argue specifically the Adverse Weather clause as applicable or actually challenge it’s contractual ‘fairness’ IMHO !!

2/. There was no ‘travel alerts’ at the time so therefore there was no Adverse Weather

However, this is a logical fallacy for a start and the wording on the definitions is vague to me - they have no definition for ’severe weather’ that matches up with anything that could be defined as a ‘severe travel alert’ from the National Highways (who advise the Met Office on severe weather impacts on travel )

Thus definition of ‘Adverse Weather’ is ambiguous and unclear and should be interpreted in your favour:
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-ri...urance-policy-can-i-challenge-it-ap6x81z7kdzc

“Often it's the interpretation of a clause which is crucial.
It's up to the insurer to make sure that their policies are clear. If they fail to do so, they run the risk of the clause being interpreted in the policyholder's favour. Under the FCA Handbook of Rules and Guidance, insurance companies must communicate information to you which is clear, fair and not misleading. If an exclusion clause contained in your policy is ambiguous, then that ambiguity must be interpreted against the insurance company, and in your favour.”

I’m not aware that Severe travel Alerts’ get issued in UK - what even are they? This sounds like fluff to me. It is the Met Office that issues ‘Severe Weather Alerts’ (eg Amber) and it is The National Highways that informs the Met Office on road travel advice - taken from the Met Office advice on ‘Severe Weather’ : “Here we provide advice from the experts at National Highways, RAC, and the Institute of Advanced Motorists. https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weathe...sonal-advice/travel/driving-in-severe-weather)

Driving in snow and ice​

• Only travel if really necessary. Snow ploughs are unable to get through if the road or motorway is full of stationary traffic, so do not make journeys unless completely necessary to give National Highways and local authorities the space they need to help you on your journey
• Avoid steep hills and exposed roads hills and exposed areas are likely to present more challenging driving conditions in snow and ice

This is from the National Highways website’s advice on travelling in ‘severe weather’ and what ‘severe weather’ might include:
“During severe winter weather, when there may be snow and ice around, please follow this advic

• Stick to the main roads where you can and only travel if necessary.”

Travelling in winter - National Highways

Winter driving advice

nationalhighways.co.uk

You could argue that travelling to a venue for entertainment is not ‘necessary’ travel under the National Highways own guidelines on what to do in severe weather.

3/. The reason you did not travel (or continue to) presumably was directly due to the fear of having an accident (correct me if I’m wrong) - you were not ‘prevented’ from travelling but ‘chose’ (sensibly!) not to.

There is a difference. An Amber warning is only an advisory - it does not ‘disallow’ travel. There is actually a clause stating that ‘fear of catching Covid’ is not a satisfyingly criteria, which lends weight to the idea that ‘fear of anything’ would not qualify for a legitimate reason not to attend an event.

Btw - Only about 41% of roads are gritted in any given Council area, so people can and do use un-gritted roads in bad/icy/snowy weather - So, unless the roads were actually blocked/closed/completely impassable or you were intending to travel by public transport that was cancelled/severely delayed, it would seem you would have an uphill battle to have a straight forward claim under the wording of the policy - ’just’ being icy or with snow would seem to be excluded although if you had had an accident en route, no doubt your tickets would be refunded under the ‘prior accident’ clause in the policy but your claim for damage and injury would obviously be against the Council). Under the Highways Act 1980 (England and Wales) Section 41(1A) states –

"a highway authority is under a duty to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that safe passage along a highway is not endangered by snow or ice."

It may be that you could claim against the Council for the loss of the tickets if you could argue that the roads were in a dangerous state but it’s a stretch!

——————-

To summarise: Personally I would still continue to argue with the ticket insurers on the following points that:

1. The Adverse Weather’ clause is an unfair contract term in the policy due to its ambiguous nature (see the law on Unfair Contract terms in insurance policies above)
2. It requires an unacceptable and unreasonable risk to travel before being able to claim under it (and to do so would be counter to the National Highways advice in the event of severe weather, eg snow and ice to ‘only travel if necessary’.
3. ’Adverse Weather is backed up by the contemporaneous Amber Warning of Severe Weather from the Met Office who get their travel advice from the National Highways.
4. Driving at night in snow and ice is even more hazardous in those conditions as temperatures fall dramatically creating black ice etc. Were you taking kids? I would add if so that even greater precautions are required.
5. I would summarise that it would be an unfair term of the Policy contract to interpret the ‘Adverse weather’ clause as only being activated under the policy if the insured has first to risk being either stranded en route and suffering hypothermia (lay it on thick!), or risk a reasonably foreseeable accident that more likely than not, could cause personal injury or even death trying to get to the venue to use his tickets!

Good luck - and for what it is worth, I think you were utterly sensible not to risk travel in those conditions- your personal
safety (and other road user’s!) is paramount and much more important than driving in a car at night on icy roads (with kids?) to attend an event.

Finally, if the insurer sticks to their interpretation, I would inform them that you wish to refer the matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

Nice work. And, good old NSC

 

[LockStock]

Thank you all so much for your help. Especially @Zebedee.

Yes we were travelling with 3 children, so it was a no brainer not to go.
I’ll try going back with the points raised by Zeb and hopefully, they will see that I’m prepared to fight them on it and do the morally correct thing.
On a side note, looks like I’m not the only one in the same situation as there are various bad reviews being left for similar reasons.