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[Other Sport] Best sportsman / athlete of all time
- Thread starter Swansman
- Start date
You know your stuff
We do... seriously though, the athletes at the top of multi disciplinary events have always stood out as the best for me: ten events, really good at most of them, and excellent at a few. Can we imagine their training regime?
incredible. The other names mentioned were excellent, the best at one, maybe two events...but it's Daley for me!!Keep up the winning posts
Lenny Rider
Well-known member
- Sep 15, 2010
- 5,534
Great thread Swansman, like my postman you always deliver 
As you say really subjective, but for me it has to be Muhammad Ali.
At the top of his sport, and even with an original circumnavigation of the system*, he refused to be drafted into the US army during the Vietnam war.
*They had originally told him his time in the Army would have been taken up with PR duties, he still could have fought professionally and he wouldn’t have to go to Vietnam.
Obviously once he made his stand the US government’s original offer was withdrawn, so they basically took his career away from him at arguably the peak of his condition for 3 years.
A peak Ali in 67/70 and both Frazier and Foreman would have probably been merely contenders and not Champions, Ali would have stayed undefeated and probably retired 72/73 and relatively healthy man with possibly Rocky Marciano’s record of 49 pro wins broken.
After boxing a fit in mind and body Ali could have done so much in the US and around the globe with Civil Rights and world peace.
For me he has to be the greatest.
As you say really subjective, but for me it has to be Muhammad Ali.
At the top of his sport, and even with an original circumnavigation of the system*, he refused to be drafted into the US army during the Vietnam war.
*They had originally told him his time in the Army would have been taken up with PR duties, he still could have fought professionally and he wouldn’t have to go to Vietnam.
Obviously once he made his stand the US government’s original offer was withdrawn, so they basically took his career away from him at arguably the peak of his condition for 3 years.
A peak Ali in 67/70 and both Frazier and Foreman would have probably been merely contenders and not Champions, Ali would have stayed undefeated and probably retired 72/73 and relatively healthy man with possibly Rocky Marciano’s record of 49 pro wins broken.
After boxing a fit in mind and body Ali could have done so much in the US and around the globe with Civil Rights and world peace.
For me he has to be the greatest.
wuntbedruv
Imagine
For those of a certain age.
Only one possible candidate
Wilson " the wonder athlete"
He won everything and wasn't swayed by lottery funding, he was a true amateur, he ran for clocks.
Only one possible candidate
Wilson " the wonder athlete"
He won everything and wasn't swayed by lottery funding, he was a true amateur, he ran for clocks.
There were some Aussie pundits in the first half of last century who maintained that Trumper was a better player than Bradman because he could play on dodgy pitches while Bradman just piled on the runs when he had a decent track. It could also be because Trumper was universally recognised as one of the good guys in sport, while Bradman, to put it mildly, wasn't.
What about Alf Tupper? Achieved it all on a diet of fish and chips - tell the modern day nutritionists that
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Great thread Swansman, like my postman you always deliver
As you say really subjective, but for me it has to be Muhammad Ali.
At the top of his sport, and even with an original circumnavigation of the system*, he refused to be drafted into the US army during the Vietnam war.
*They had originally told him his time in the Army would have been taken up with PR duties, he still could have fought professionally and he wouldn’t have to go to Vietnam.
Obviously once he made his stand the US government’s original offer was withdrawn, so they basically took his career away from him at arguably the peak of his condition for 3 years.
A peak Ali in 67/70 and both Frazier and Foreman would have probably been merely contenders and not Champions, Ali would have stayed undefeated and probably retired 72/73 and relatively healthy man with possibly Rocky Marciano’s record of 49 pro wins broken.
After boxing a fit in mind and body Ali could have done so much in the US and around the globe with Civil Rights and world peace.
For me he has to be the greatest.
He lost to Frazier however still 29 years old, and in boxing terms that is still pretty young. When Ken Norton beat him, Ali was 31, even in the return 6 months later, Ali only won on a controversial split decision. When they fought a 3rd time with Ali now 34, again it was a close decision. Remembering that Foreman completely destroyed Norton in '74.
Hypothetical of course, but Ali wouldn't have fought Foreman in those '67 - '70 years anyway as Foreman didn't turn 20 years old until '69. That he beat Foreman who was then 25 years old does stand him as the greatest heavyweight in my humble opinion, but he wasn't unbeatable.
Incidentally the Ken Burns documentary on Ali on BBC iPlayer is brilliant for anyone who hasn't watched it. I've also just finished reading 'The Fight' by Norman Mailler which while controversial is a brilliant book on the Foreman fight.
Arguably his greatest fight was '66 against Cleveland Williams. A fantastic watch:
My favourite Trumper story (that actually relates to his ability rather than him just being the sort of lovely guy who'd see a paperboy stood in the rain at 10pm and would buy his whole stock so he could go home) has him gifting a bat to Aubrey Faulkner, who was a properly good test match batsman and great all-rounder. Faulkner found the bat to be a completely dead plank of wood, and politely mentioned this to Trumper, who said something along the lines of "oh sorry, it must need knocking in, I'll play with it today". He went out and used it to hit a wonderful hundred, pinging the ball all over the ground, before handing it back, saying "it should be better now." Faulkner still found it to be a completely useless plank of wood.
Incidentally Faulkner's a fascinating bloke, who was born in Cape Colony, played test matches for South Africa before and after the First World War, served in the war, set up a world famous cricket school in London and gained a reputation as a great coach, before committing suicide by gassing himself in a storeroom of the school aged 48.
Pondicherry
Well-known member
Alf Shrubb from the heart of Sussex. 28 world records at athletics and faster than a horse.
Alfred Shrubb (12 December 1879 – 23 April 1964) known as Alfie Shrubb was an English middle and long-distance runner. During an amateur career lasting from 1899 to 1905 (when he was barred from amateur competition for receiving payment for running) and a professional career from 1905 to 1912 he won over 1,000 races of about 1,800. At the peak of his career he was virtually unbeatable at distances up to 15 miles, often racing against relay teams so that the race would be more competitive. On 4 November 1904, at Ibrox Park, Glasgow, he broke the one hour run record as well as all amateur records from six to eleven miles, and all professional records from eight to eleven miles, running eleven miles, 1137 yards (18.742 km) in one hour. Altogether he set 28 world records.[3]
He raced ten times against the record-holding Canadian First Nations marathoner Tom Longboat,[4] winning all the races shorter than 20 miles and losing all the longer races. In 1908 he became coach of the Harvard University cross-country team, leading it to a national title. From 1919 to 1928 he coached the University of Oxford Athletics Club.
In 1928 Alfred made his home permanently in Canada, where he operated the Cream of Barley Mill in Bowmanville, Ontario until 1949.[5] He died there in 1964.[2]
He is commemorated by the annual Alfie Shrubb Museum Run in Bowmanville, and the annual Alf Shrubb Memorial 5-mile cross-country run in Slinfold.
Alfred Shrubb (12 December 1879 – 23 April 1964) known as Alfie Shrubb was an English middle and long-distance runner. During an amateur career lasting from 1899 to 1905 (when he was barred from amateur competition for receiving payment for running) and a professional career from 1905 to 1912 he won over 1,000 races of about 1,800. At the peak of his career he was virtually unbeatable at distances up to 15 miles, often racing against relay teams so that the race would be more competitive. On 4 November 1904, at Ibrox Park, Glasgow, he broke the one hour run record as well as all amateur records from six to eleven miles, and all professional records from eight to eleven miles, running eleven miles, 1137 yards (18.742 km) in one hour. Altogether he set 28 world records.[3]
He raced ten times against the record-holding Canadian First Nations marathoner Tom Longboat,[4] winning all the races shorter than 20 miles and losing all the longer races. In 1908 he became coach of the Harvard University cross-country team, leading it to a national title. From 1919 to 1928 he coached the University of Oxford Athletics Club.
In 1928 Alfred made his home permanently in Canada, where he operated the Cream of Barley Mill in Bowmanville, Ontario until 1949.[5] He died there in 1964.[2]
He is commemorated by the annual Alfie Shrubb Museum Run in Bowmanville, and the annual Alf Shrubb Memorial 5-mile cross-country run in Slinfold.
Lenny Rider
Well-known member
- Sep 15, 2010
- 5,534
How much did the 3 year inaction affect his performances in the defeats against Frazier ad Norton?
And if the Cleveland Williams fight was him at his 'peak' how much better would he have got without the Vietnam issues?
Lenny Rider
Well-known member
- Sep 15, 2010
- 5,534
But is this 'nice guy' thing all a bit of a myth?
I didnt know that about Bradman, but my choice in this thread, Ali, was a serial adultery (which doesn't make him a bad bloke) and his treatment and lack of respect for both Joe Frazier and Geroge Foreman in their respective bouts went way beyond hype.
Frazier only forgave Ali for the 'Uncle Tom' stuff at the end of his life.
Psychobilly freakout
HellBilly
Babe Didrikson Zaharias
an American athlete who excelled in golf, basketball, baseball and track and field. She won two gold medals in track and field at the 1932 Summer Olympics, before turning to professional golf and winning 10 LPGA major championships.
an American athlete who excelled in golf, basketball, baseball and track and field. She won two gold medals in track and field at the 1932 Summer Olympics, before turning to professional golf and winning 10 LPGA major championships.
I don't think so. There are too many anecdotes from different people about what a kind and generous guy Trumper was - he failed at his sports goods business because he gave too much stock away.
My favourite Trumper story is about his picking up a bat from his store,played with it in a match and scored a ton. He then sold it to a punter at half the price, because it had been used. Imagine that today.
If I had a time machine and could go back to watch one sportsperson, in any sport, in any era, my choice would be Trumper.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Hard to say isn’t it, I’m not disputing your overall statement, just the argument he would have been unbeatable. He didn’t pack and explosively hard punch and as his opponents got better you could argue he realised he couldn’t fight like he did v Williams for 15 rounds.
Half Time Pies
Well-known member
I don't think you can include anything that happened more than 50 years ago in the discussion as the world and sport was such a different place. Bradman played all of his cricket in only 2 countries, England and Australia. All of his international cricket was against England, he never faced spin bowling on cracked wickets in India and Pakistan or fast bowling in the west indies.
In my view scoring a shed loads of runs against some amateur English toffs doesn't put you in to the mix as the greatest sportsman ever!
Yes, it's hard to compare across different eras but I'd say that scoring runs in Bradman's era was much more difficult. He was batting on uncovered wickets (and some of them very rough indeed), with minimal protection. Facing Larwood bowling at 90+ mph on a bouncy Aussie track, with those flimsy spiked gloves and no helmet must have been a tough proposition. If you look at averages pre-1980 bowlers tend to be slightly better than they are now, while batters are slightly lower.
And he rarely faced English toffs: Larwood, Voce, Bowes, Tate, Verity, Bedser, Laker, Hollies were all professionals
Fignon's Ponytail
Well-known member
All very selective of course - but the likes of Ayrton Senna, Babe Ruth, Tom Brady, Jerry Rice, MJ, Bo Jackson, Gretzky, Ali, Federer etc should always be in the discussion for GOAT.
