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Audax

Boing boing boing...
Aug 3, 2015
2,999
Uckfield
Interesting that, given we've been told for 40 years that Sheffield Shield cricket = limited number of sides = more intense competition = players better prepared for Test cricket. What happened?

They changed it ..

Australia have relegated the Sheffield Shield to a subsidiary competition so everything stops for the Big Bash. It's having a seriously detrimental effect on their cricketers.

It's the Big Bash, but it's also pitch preparation. Back when Border led us out of the wilderness, and delivered into Taylor's hands a strong team, which was then passed to Waugh, and finally Ponting ... well, back then every test ground had its own character. The SCG was conducive to spin, Perth was bouncy, Adelaide a batsman's paradise, Bellerive took seam, Melbourne would change across the 5 days, and the Gabba would start out nice for the quicks and bats, then produce results for spinners later.

Now we're in the era of the drop-in pitch, and the variation in pitches has been reduced significantly. There's less in them for the bowlers, in particular the SCG is no longer a spinners playground, and Perth doesn't bounce as much as it used to. The Gabba remains much as it used to be, but it was always the "middle of the road" option. Adelaide remains a batsman's paradise mostly, but that doesn't help us to develop better batsmen.

All up, the current generation of Aussie batsmen have grown up playing Shield cricket where the pitches are too similar to each other, with the result that they aren't facing enough variety of conditions and simply don't know how to adapt any more. Thus, they get turned over by any of the following: half decent spin, reverse swing, seam bowling (especially of the variety the Saffers produced in Hobart, where they got some bounce to go with it), late swing. And they make big scores if the bowling is straight up and down.


We can only keep praying for this......................but Smith, Warner, Khawaja and most of all Starc are all pretty damn good; Lyon and Hazelwood are pretty useful but I'm unsure (read ignorant) of pedigree of the rest. I still can't allow myself the indulgence to think that an Aussie team will keep rolling over. You can't help but think that the vast majority of Aussies cricket supporters have already turned their mind to the upcoming Big Bash. I wonder if one or two of the players have done the same?

Smith, Warner, and (hopefully) Khawaja will form the core 3 bats over the next 4-5 years at least, and should be a strong trio for us. Warner's the oldest of the lot at a tick over 30 years old, and I suspect he'll keep going well into his mid-late 30's as long as he's still producing big scores regularly enough to get picked. Much as Cook has been the constant at the top for England, that'll be Warner's role while Australia searches for the #2 opener (which can take a while, as England has shown already). Khawaja has the ability to become a strong #3, but the selectors need to stop dicking him about. I get the impression he's a confidence player, and needs to feel like he's got the trust of the team and selectors to get the most out of him. I think dropping him for the 3rd test in SL was a big mistake that's cost us a bit against SA. Smith is a given: he's the captain, for one, and the only bat who showed any backbone in Hobart. When he's in form, he delivers big - and there's no one else in the team currently who I'd entrust with permanent captaincy.

Around those three, we need to bite the bullet: no more parachuting in mid-30's guys who got overlooked when they were in their prime years. Now that Voges has been forced out due to the concussion, I'd leave him out permanently. So of the new guys: I believe Handscomb is one of the guys who's been right on the edge of being selected for a couple of seasons now. He's got a good Shield average of over 40, but he's been overlooked in favour of other players with poorer averages for some reason (such as Ferguson; much older and with a worse average). Now he's forced his way in, I hope the selectors allow him a solid run to find his feet. Renshaw is unknown to me, but looking at his results so far this season, and reading some of what's been said about him, he may be just the guy we're looking for to be Warner's foil. I've seen it mentioned that he's a "Rogers" style opener, placing a high price on his wicket and willing to play the long game when necessary. Maddinson ... I'm worried about. He's been mentioned as an eventual Aussie middle order player for a while now, but his Shield average isn't great (sub-40) and he's apparently prone to getting himself out through boredom/frustration. He's also been picked ahead of one of his NSW teammates who picked up a half century in the latest Shield game (in which Maddinson had a double failure) and has a better season average. Apparently Smith is a big fan of Maddinson's talent and thinks he can coax good results out of him - so he's been picked on subjective potential rather than objective results.

Wade's in for Nevill not because he's technically better, but because there's a correlation between Wade being replaced by Nevill and Australia's tail no longer scoring rear-guard runs. Apparently they think Wade's better at coaxing runs out of the tail than Nevill is, so Wade gets the nod (he's also improved his 'keeping, and his 'keeping being sub-par is what got him dropped in the first place).

I heard Lyon was going to get chopped, but O'Keefe got injured. So we keep Lyon, which is OK by me. Personally, though, I'd like to see the selectors take a punt on Zampa at some point this summer. Perhaps alongside Lyon when we go to the SCG (despite what I said above, it does still turn a *bit*). Bowling side of things we're still strong. The problem we've had vs SA is that they didn't pick the strongest (available) bowling line up because they were trying to stick a bandaid on the gaping wounds in the top 6 (ie pick Mennie because he's a better bat than Bird). I'd rather have the best bowling line up available and put the onus on the bats to get the runs ... because if the bats don't get the runs, you need to take 20 wickets as cheaply as you can.
 




knocky1

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2010
13,018
At Lunch on Day 1 Australia breaking all time Test Records yet again. First time the second, third and fourth in an order have been dismissed for 5 runs each. They have to take anything they can these days.

Had a good morning but hopefully they will be on the back foot by tea (or supper as it's a day/night Test).
 




Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
It's the Big Bash, but it's also pitch preparation. Back when Border led us out of the wilderness, and delivered into Taylor's hands a strong team, which was then passed to Waugh, and finally Ponting ... well, back then every test ground had its own character. The SCG was conducive to spin, Perth was bouncy, Adelaide a batsman's paradise, Bellerive took seam, Melbourne would change across the 5 days, and the Gabba would start out nice for the quicks and bats, then produce results for spinners later.

Now we're in the era of the drop-in pitch, and the variation in pitches has been reduced significantly. There's less in them for the bowlers, in particular the SCG is no longer a spinners playground, and Perth doesn't bounce as much as it used to. The Gabba remains much as it used to be, but it was always the "middle of the road" option. Adelaide remains a batsman's paradise mostly, but that doesn't help us to develop better batsmen.

All up, the current generation of Aussie batsmen have grown up playing Shield cricket where the pitches are too similar to each other, with the result that they aren't facing enough variety of conditions and simply don't know how to adapt any more. Thus, they get turned over by any of the following: half decent spin, reverse swing, seam bowling (especially of the variety the Saffers produced in Hobart, where they got some bounce to go with it), late swing. And they make big scores if the bowling is straight up and down.




Smith, Warner, and (hopefully) Khawaja will form the core 3 bats over the next 4-5 years at least, and should be a strong trio for us. Warner's the oldest of the lot at a tick over 30 years old, and I suspect he'll keep going well into his mid-late 30's as long as he's still producing big scores regularly enough to get picked. Much as Cook has been the constant at the top for England, that'll be Warner's role while Australia searches for the #2 opener (which can take a while, as England has shown already). Khawaja has the ability to become a strong #3, but the selectors need to stop dicking him about. I get the impression he's a confidence player, and needs to feel like he's got the trust of the team and selectors to get the most out of him. I think dropping him for the 3rd test in SL was a big mistake that's cost us a bit against SA. Smith is a given: he's the captain, for one, and the only bat who showed any backbone in Hobart. When he's in form, he delivers big - and there's no one else in the team currently who I'd entrust with permanent captaincy.

Around those three, we need to bite the bullet: no more parachuting in mid-30's guys who got overlooked when they were in their prime years. Now that Voges has been forced out due to the concussion, I'd leave him out permanently. So of the new guys: I believe Handscomb is one of the guys who's been right on the edge of being selected for a couple of seasons now. He's got a good Shield average of over 40, but he's been overlooked in favour of other players with poorer averages for some reason (such as Ferguson; much older and with a worse average). Now he's forced his way in, I hope the selectors allow him a solid run to find his feet. Renshaw is unknown to me, but looking at his results so far this season, and reading some of what's been said about him, he may be just the guy we're looking for to be Warner's foil. I've seen it mentioned that he's a "Rogers" style opener, placing a high price on his wicket and willing to play the long game when necessary. Maddinson ... I'm worried about. He's been mentioned as an eventual Aussie middle order player for a while now, but his Shield average isn't great (sub-40) and he's apparently prone to getting himself out through boredom/frustration. He's also been picked ahead of one of his NSW teammates who picked up a half century in the latest Shield game (in which Maddinson had a double failure) and has a better season average. Apparently Smith is a big fan of Maddinson's talent and thinks he can coax good results out of him - so he's been picked on subjective potential rather than objective results.

Wade's in for Nevill not because he's technically better, but because there's a correlation between Wade being replaced by Nevill and Australia's tail no longer scoring rear-guard runs. Apparently they think Wade's better at coaxing runs out of the tail than Nevill is, so Wade gets the nod (he's also improved his 'keeping, and his 'keeping being sub-par is what got him dropped in the first place).

I heard Lyon was going to get chopped, but O'Keefe got injured. So we keep Lyon, which is OK by me. Personally, though, I'd like to see the selectors take a punt on Zampa at some point this summer. Perhaps alongside Lyon when we go to the SCG (despite what I said above, it does still turn a *bit*). Bowling side of things we're still strong. The problem we've had vs SA is that they didn't pick the strongest (available) bowling line up because they were trying to stick a bandaid on the gaping wounds in the top 6 (ie pick Mennie because he's a better bat than Bird). I'd rather have the best bowling line up available and put the onus on the bats to get the runs ... because if the bats don't get the runs, you need to take 20 wickets as cheaply as you can.

Many thanks for this full, balanced and scarily authoritative response. You've now put the bar for contributions to this thread up very high! But can't we just go back to taking the p*ss? Seriously thanks very much for these insights.
 


Prince Monolulu

Everything in Moderation
Oct 2, 2013
10,201
The Race Hill
Yep, never seen that before. Seen 'Tea' and 'Lunch' but not noticed 'Dinner' in the past.

dinner.JPG
 




jakarta

Well-known member
May 25, 2007
15,646
Sullington
It's the Big Bash, but it's also pitch preparation. Back when Border led us out of the wilderness, and delivered into Taylor's hands a strong team, which was then passed to Waugh, and finally Ponting ... well, back then every test ground had its own character. The SCG was conducive to spin, Perth was bouncy, Adelaide a batsman's paradise, Bellerive took seam, Melbourne would change across the 5 days, and the Gabba would start out nice for the quicks and bats, then produce results for spinners later.

Now we're in the era of the drop-in pitch, and the variation in pitches has been reduced significantly. There's less in them for the bowlers, in particular the SCG is no longer a spinners playground, and Perth doesn't bounce as much as it used to. The Gabba remains much as it used to be, but it was always the "middle of the road" option. Adelaide remains a batsman's paradise mostly, but that doesn't help us to develop better batsmen.

All up, the current generation of Aussie batsmen have grown up playing Shield cricket where the pitches are too similar to each other, with the result that they aren't facing enough variety of conditions and simply don't know how to adapt any more. Thus, they get turned over by any of the following: half decent spin, reverse swing, seam bowling (especially of the variety the Saffers produced in Hobart, where they got some bounce to go with it), late swing. And they make big scores if the bowling is straight up and down.




Smith, Warner, and (hopefully) Khawaja will form the core 3 bats over the next 4-5 years at least, and should be a strong trio for us. Warner's the oldest of the lot at a tick over 30 years old, and I suspect he'll keep going well into his mid-late 30's as long as he's still producing big scores regularly enough to get picked. Much as Cook has been the constant at the top for England, that'll be Warner's role while Australia searches for the #2 opener (which can take a while, as England has shown already). Khawaja has the ability to become a strong #3, but the selectors need to stop dicking him about. I get the impression he's a confidence player, and needs to feel like he's got the trust of the team and selectors to get the most out of him. I think dropping him for the 3rd test in SL was a big mistake that's cost us a bit against SA. Smith is a given: he's the captain, for one, and the only bat who showed any backbone in Hobart. When he's in form, he delivers big - and there's no one else in the team currently who I'd entrust with permanent captaincy.

Around those three, we need to bite the bullet: no more parachuting in mid-30's guys who got overlooked when they were in their prime years. Now that Voges has been forced out due to the concussion, I'd leave him out permanently. So of the new guys: I believe Handscomb is one of the guys who's been right on the edge of being selected for a couple of seasons now. He's got a good Shield average of over 40, but he's been overlooked in favour of other players with poorer averages for some reason (such as Ferguson; much older and with a worse average). Now he's forced his way in, I hope the selectors allow him a solid run to find his feet. Renshaw is unknown to me, but looking at his results so far this season, and reading some of what's been said about him, he may be just the guy we're looking for to be Warner's foil. I've seen it mentioned that he's a "Rogers" style opener, placing a high price on his wicket and willing to play the long game when necessary. Maddinson ... I'm worried about. He's been mentioned as an eventual Aussie middle order player for a while now, but his Shield average isn't great (sub-40) and he's apparently prone to getting himself out through boredom/frustration. He's also been picked ahead of one of his NSW teammates who picked up a half century in the latest Shield game (in which Maddinson had a double failure) and has a better season average. Apparently Smith is a big fan of Maddinson's talent and thinks he can coax good results out of him - so he's been picked on subjective potential rather than objective results.

Wade's in for Nevill not because he's technically better, but because there's a correlation between Wade being replaced by Nevill and Australia's tail no longer scoring rear-guard runs. Apparently they think Wade's better at coaxing runs out of the tail than Nevill is, so Wade gets the nod (he's also improved his 'keeping, and his 'keeping being sub-par is what got him dropped in the first place).

I heard Lyon was going to get chopped, but O'Keefe got injured. So we keep Lyon, which is OK by me. Personally, though, I'd like to see the selectors take a punt on Zampa at some point this summer. Perhaps alongside Lyon when we go to the SCG (despite what I said above, it does still turn a *bit*). Bowling side of things we're still strong. The problem we've had vs SA is that they didn't pick the strongest (available) bowling line up because they were trying to stick a bandaid on the gaping wounds in the top 6 (ie pick Mennie because he's a better bat than Bird). I'd rather have the best bowling line up available and put the onus on the bats to get the runs ... because if the bats don't get the runs, you need to take 20 wickets as cheaply as you can.

We appear to have found an NSC Aussie Cricket Correspondent - are you Jim Maxwell in Disguise? :lolol: :clap:
 


ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,778
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Yep, never seen that before. Seen 'Tea' and 'Lunch' but not noticed 'Dinner' in the past.

View attachment 79706

And tea, after the first session lasts 20 minutes and dinner after the second session lasts 40 minutes too, by the looks of it. Different ball game, quite literally.
 


Audax

Boing boing boing...
Aug 3, 2015
2,999
Uckfield
We appear to have found an NSC Aussie Cricket Correspondent - are you Jim Maxwell in Disguise? :lolol: :clap:

Nah, just an Aussie expat who happens to be a bit of a cricket tragic :p.

Rather happy tos ee us get SA 7 down by "dinner" break, but looking like Faf is going to give us major headaches unless we can get him soon (or nip out the tail in quick order).
 




Papa Lazarou

Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Jul 7, 2003
18,930
Worthing
South Africa rallying in the final session 207/7 - Du Plessis on 91 no, Kyle Abbott on 17 no
 


Braggfan

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
May 12, 2014
1,864
Since the 2009 series Australia have lost Haddin, Ponting, Hussey, M. Johnson, Harris, Clarke, Katich and probably only found adequate replacements in Smith and Warner. That’s a lot of quality to replace. When Micky Arthur was in charge he was demonised for not being very good, but actually what I think he was trying to address back then was the fact that an Australia team that had been together for a long time had lost significant big players. The problem was so bad at in 2010/11, it was being thrown around, probably not seriously, about bringing Warne back! When Lehmann came in it was to stop them getting a pasting in the 2013 Ashes. He did that by bringing back old heads at the expense of some of the youngsters Arthur was trying to blood.

I think Australia are suffering from that to a degree. They have been due a major rebuilding spell for years and they’ve kept delaying it or hoping they can discover a few key players to keep them going while younger players catch up. The problem is they’ve been delaying and delaying that rebuilding session and it’s finally catching up with them ready or not.

I also think the Australian batting line up is too dependent on Smith and Warner. Both are great players on their day, but when they’re not firing they have nothing else to back it up.
 


Papa Lazarou

Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Jul 7, 2003
18,930
Worthing
Nah, just an Aussie expat who happens to be a bit of a cricket tragic :p.

Rather happy tos ee us get SA 7 down by "dinner" break, but looking like Faf is going to give us major headaches unless we can get him soon (or nip out the tail in quick order).

I take it batting is much harder in day / night tests?
 






knocky1

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2010
13,018
Du Plessis 98n.o. deserves a century. It's been a SWEET innings and he has frequently LICKED the ball to the boundary.
 






knocky1

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2010
13,018
Australians are the first to moan about our lovely English weather yet they are wearing blankets to keep that cold Antarctic wind from their goolagongs. Not a good advert for day/night Tests.
 




edna krabappel

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
47,255
SA have put on 32 for the last wicket so far :lol:
 


ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,778
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
South Africa declare. 259/9. Different game this pink ball cricket.
 






knocky1

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2010
13,018
Australia must feel confident that they will get through the session without losing a wicket. After all they hold English cricketers in high esteem.

Enter Mr Renshaw.......
 


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