Are systems over rated? (Especially at lower levels of football)

[Not Andy Naylor]

If your available personnel don't fit your system then it makes no sense to persevere with the system IMHO.

For example, both Chelsea and England forced Joe Cole to play as a wide player because that was the only place in their rigid systems where they could fit him in. So a potentially great number 10 was forced to become a decent but not great number 11.

At West Ham, Rio Ferdinand looked as if he might become England's Franz Beckenbauer, bringing the ball forward to become a playmaker from deep, and his move to Leeds, where he was eventually coached by Terry Venables, promised the same. Then he went to Manchester United, and became a conventional back-four player because that was Ferguson's system. Decent move for him as he won lots of medals and earned loads of dosh, but a loss for England.

 

[Munkfish]

A system works, if you have the players to play it. without a shadow of a doubt I fully support the manager employing a system, the problem is if you dont have the players, or the opposistion are just too good you are not always going to win.

Players need instructions, otherwise each player will be playing their own game, everyone needs to play together for the greater good.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

A system works, if you have the players to play it. without a shadow of a doubt I fully support the manager employing a system, the problem is if you dont have the players, or the opposistion are just too good you are not always going to win.

Players need instructions, otherwise each player will be playing their own game, everyone needs to play together for the greater good.

Sometimes,especially at International level for England,players are not allowed to do this enough..

 

[The Camel]

I agree whole heartedly with you about CMS, we have wasted his good attributes the last few years - but saying you should develop a system to suit your players is completely short sighted; players get bought by other teams all the time. We then have to buy players to replace those who leave, and they bring different attributes, to be utilised differently. By your very own admission, better players in system A can be beaten by inferior players in system B. So if system B works for the inferior players, that means that the system was more important than the sum of its parts. As I say I agree that when you have someone like CMS who is dying to be played in behind, it frustrates me when we don't play that ball. But this...

...isn't true. Burnley certainly didn't have the 2nd best group of players in the league last season, they had a system that worked well and to their strengths.

El-Abd would be a perfect example of coaching improving a player - he went from lower league hoofer to ball-playing centre half under Poyet, because under GP's system he was encouraged to be comfortable on the ball, and given the confidence by Poyet's man management to do so. Hopefully the 4321/4312 sort of system SH looks likely to use is going to be the best system for us - but if we win the league it wouldn't be by having the best players in the league, because that clearly isn't true.

Burnley is a great example of what I am saying!

Old Ginge looked at his squad, saw his strength were two good strikers and couple of decent wide men and formed a system which played to their strengths.

Added a an excellent team spirit and strong motivational skills and you had a team which performed brilliantly last season.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

I think it can help teams get promoted from League One, but from that point you're in danger of stagnating in the Championship, choking in big games, and seeing rival teams leave you in their wake.

Palace still in the Prem at the expense of your more creative players?

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

I do feel that sometimes we over egg our local football teams and clubs, is it really the responsibility of an eager parent which is on a hiding to nothing to bring through the next generation of International footballers ..... hardly.

Sometimes locally you just hope you get a team together of kids/parents and enjoy a few wins and despair in a few losses over a pint or two, hopefully those kids can make friends for life and recall the atrocious refereeing decision that robbed them of an under 10's final at East Brighton park in middle age.

The Academys hold the key, the very reason they were introduced was not purely to bring a few Gareth Bales through but create an environment where a new generation of young technically gifted English players might be developed.

This is the key area which needs close scrutiny, it can be disruptive to local teams having their players poached away, but if the scouting is professional and appropriate then not many should be sucked out of out local youth leagues.

The validity on system and formations usually depends on the knowledge of the guy imparting that information.

The problem is the scouts "sometimes" see this as more money making or name securing than having the real interests of the players at heart. My Sons have both played for local "Championship/League" clubs academies and both times they've been drawn away from their local club and two very different experiences. One club was more interested in him signing (securing) him on the A1 (before he even had a trial) or whatever it's called and the other saying let's see him for a term and see how he does.

 

[BigGully]

The problem is the scouts "sometimes" see this as more money making or name securing than having the real interests of the players at heart. My Sons have both played for local "Championship/League" clubs academies and both times they've been drawn away from their local club and two very different experiences. One club was more interested in him signing (securing) him on the A1 (before he even had a trial) or whatever it's called and the other saying let's see him for a term and see how he does.

Scouts are accountable to the club they represent, so players at all stages need to be well advised, not too sure what you mean by 'money making', a successful player is likely to receive money above and beyond what the scout who originally scouted him.

Most care about the players, but some are better than others and need to firstly assess correctly and then treat the player and the family honestly.

They might offer an immediate 'contract' which would link that players registration to that club for one year or two depending on age, whilst many would invite a player in for a 6 week trial.

Thats quite normal and the guidelines say that you can only offer a youngster one 6 week trial within a season, so it has some checks and balancing.

 

[Grassman]

I think it can help teams get promoted from League One, but from that point you're in danger of stagnating in the Championship, choking in big games, and seeing rival teams leave you in their wake.

As opposed to your system of the last decade. Buying players you couldn't afford and then going into admin to clear the debts. I reckon it'll catch on.

 

[VHA on NSC]

As opposed to your system of the last decade. Buying players you couldn't afford and then going into admin to clear the debts. I reckon it'll catch on.

Nothing to do with the thread title. Please stay on topic, we're sick of people obsessed with Palace, and trying to shoehorn them into every discussion (especially on the basis of questionable, outrageous accusations)

 

[edna krabappel]

Nothing to do with the thread title. Please stay on topic, we're sick of people obsessed with Palace, and trying to shoehorn them into every discussion (especially on the basis of questionable, outrageous accusations)

It's funny, because when I'm sick of something, I tend not to keep coming back to it.

Or I just ban it, either/or.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Nothing to do with the thread title. Please stay on topic, we're sick of people obsessed with Palace, and trying to shoehorn them into every discussion (especially on the basis of questionable, outrageous accusations)

go away then,it's gone midnight and you find yourself on our message board...

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

It's funny, because when I'm sick of something, I tend not to keep coming back to it.

Or I just ban it, either/or.

 

[Grassman]

Nothing to do with the thread title. Please stay on topic, we're sick of people obsessed with Palace, and trying to shoehorn them into every discussion (especially on the basis of questionable, outrageous accusations)

That's funny Palace man - I'll give you that.