Are labour voters the worst losers in the history of the world?

[Westdene Seagull]

It's far more logical than your idea. The polls aren't usually that inaccurate.

I don't care about being in an ideological minority. I care about the country being ruled by a party that was voted for by just over 35% of voters and who ran a very negative campaign.

As did Labour.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I am struggling to think of a more bitter set of people. They are making Fergie, Mourinho and Nigel Adkins look gracious.

Maybe it's not a question of being bitter, but about real concern of what might now happen.

I am on the management committee of the main benefits advice centre in Southampton. We have already felt it necessary to send our advisers for suicide awareness training. There are going to be a further £12bn benefit cuts. Go figure.
Most Tory MPs seem to think that people only use food-banks because they "are there". Anyone who has anything to do with them knows that people who go to them have to be referred to them and that, to put it mildly, they would rather not have to. People are desperate and it is going to get worse.
We have all seen the horror stories about benefits tribunals ruling people fit for work when they are clearly not. These are true! I know that from personal experiences of friends and neighbours.
I have a wife who works in education who is furious about the £billions going to the ideological black hole of Free Schools, many of which are failing, where the government has no control of them when they are set up, where there seems to be no consideration of whether they are needed where they are proposed, when her institution, which is doing a superb job in the ethnically diverse city of Southampton, has a constant battle and struggle for survival, and a neighbouring college just outside the City is being allowed to go under.
I have a daughter who is a doctor, training to be a GP in Leicestershire, and a brother-in-law who is a recently retired consultant surgeon, both confirming the fears about the NHS. Maybe they are wrong (I don't think they are) but they are seriously worried.
I have a daughter working in local government in South Wales, I know plenty of people working in local government in Southampton, Portsmouth, Eastleigh, Hampshire County Council who are constantly having to do more with less..... And it is people's lives, wellbeing and safety they are playing with.

It's not about being bitter. It's about real fear for the future.

 

[W.C.]

As did Labour.

Didn't have the right wing press on their side though did they? The dirtiest of the dirtiest.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You clown. Do you think another party is not possible? Really. Again, it was an example. There will be many distatesful parties, with everybody represented. There will be inter party squabbling, and not a lot will be achieved. PR wont happen any time soon. UKIP have to start WINNING seats. Not losing them. Not that they would ever be anything other than a fringe party, as PR will work for the Labour party, and the Tories in regards to seats.

What a load of bollocks. If true PR had been used then the MP split would be :

Tories = 240 MPs
Labour = 195
UKIP = 84
Lib Dems = 52
SNP = 32
Green = 26

 

[Stato]

I am not surprised the labour party is currently in such internal turmoil when their most vociferous supporters blindly refuse to acknowledge some of their support has disappeared to UKIP

The one denial of this fact on this thread has come from a person who doesn't vote Labour. Congratulations for utterly destroying the position not being put forward by your vociferous, but imaginary opponents.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Didn't have the right wing press on their side though did they? The dirtiest of the dirtiest.

No, they had the left wing press on their side .... your point is what exactly ?

 

[pastafarian]

You clown. Do you think another party is not possible? Really. Again, it was an example. There will be many distatesful parties, with everybody represented. There will be inter party squabbling, and not a lot will be achieved. PR wont happen any time soon. UKIP have to start WINNING seats. Not losing them. Not that they would ever be anything other than a fringe party, as PR will work for the Labour party, and the Tories in regards to seats.

As i said.....ill await and see what you come up with next to be anti PR......im sure you are not stupid enough to use the same line twice

 

[daveinprague]

What a load of bollocks. If true PR had been used then the MP split would be :

Tories = 240 MPs
Labour = 195
UKIP = 84
Lib Dems = 52
SNP = 32
Green = 26

So, from that list, who will they form a coalition with in order to win any vote?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Maybe it's not a question of being bitter, but about real concern of what might now happen.

I am on the management committee of the main benefits advice centre in Southampton. We have already felt it necessary to send our advisers for suicide awareness training. There are going to be a further £12bn benefit cuts. Go figure.
Most Tory MPs seem to think that people only use food-banks because they "are there". Anyone who has anything to do with them knows that people who go to them have to be referred to them and that, to put it mildly, they would rather not have to. People are desperate and it is going to get worse.
We have all seen the horror stories about benefits tribunals ruling people fit for work when they are clearly not. These are true! I know that from personal experiences of friends and neighbours.
I have a wife who works in education who is furious about the £billions going to the ideological black hole of Free Schools, many of which are failing, where the government has no control of them when they are set up, where there seems to be no consideration of whether they are needed where they are proposed, when her institution, which is doing a superb job in the ethnically diverse city of Southampton, has a constant battle and struggle for survival, and a neighbouring college just outside the City is being allowed to go under.
I have a daughter who is a doctor, training to be a GP in Leicestershire, and a brother-in-law who is a recently retired consultant surgeon, both confirming the fears about the NHS. Maybe they are wrong (I don't think they are) but they are seriously worried.
I have a daughter working in local government in South Wales, I know plenty of people working in local government in Southampton, Portsmouth, Eastleigh, Hampshire County Council who are constantly having to do more with less..... And it is people's lives, wellbeing and safety they are playing with.

It's not about being bitter. It's about real fear for the future.

This.

 

[W.C.]

No, they had the left wing press on their side .... your point is what exactly ?

If you could point me in the direction of anything quite as virulent and personal as the kind of stuff published in the Mail and Sun I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong. I actually gained a bit of respect for Milliband over the course of the campaign for how much shit he took.

And my wider point is, all party politics aside, how did it come to this? That our press could be run as mouth pieces for individuals pushing their own agendas in such a spiteful, childish way. It's depressing. I mean, how can one man donate over a million quid to one party, then use his 'news'paper to tell us all to vote for that party? Newspapers have always have political leanings, we all know that, but they're no more than play things these days. Bit like big football clubs.

 

[Chicken Run]

So, from that list, who will they form a coalition with in order to win any vote?

They wouldn't, the whole government would be a mess, someone has to lead. We would be waiting years for any credible bills to be passed!

 

[Chicken Run]

Maybe it's not a question of being bitter, but about real concern of what might now happen.

I am on the management committee of the main benefits advice centre in Southampton. We have already felt it necessary to send our advisers for suicide awareness training. There are going to be a further £12bn benefit cuts. Go figure.
Most Tory MPs seem to think that people only use food-banks because they "are there". Anyone who has anything to do with them knows that people who go to them have to be referred to them and that, to put it mildly, they would rather not have to. People are desperate and it is going to get worse.
We have all seen the horror stories about benefits tribunals ruling people fit for work when they are clearly not. These are true! I know that from personal experiences of friends and neighbours.
I have a wife who works in education who is furious about the £billions going to the ideological black hole of Free Schools, many of which are failing, where the government has no control of them when they are set up, where there seems to be no consideration of whether they are needed where they are proposed, when her institution, which is doing a superb job in the ethnically diverse city of Southampton, has a constant battle and struggle for survival, and a neighbouring college just outside the City is being allowed to go under.
I have a daughter who is a doctor, training to be a GP in Leicestershire, and a brother-in-law who is a recently retired consultant surgeon, both confirming the fears about the NHS. Maybe they are wrong (I don't think they are) but they are seriously worried.
I have a daughter working in local government in South Wales, I know plenty of people working in local government in Southampton, Portsmouth, Eastleigh, Hampshire County Council who are constantly having to do more with less..... And it is people's lives, wellbeing and safety they are playing with.

It's not about being bitter. It's about real fear for the future.

The main fear I have is that you obviously think that the joke (And they are proving that already when the chips are down leaving the sinking ship) that is the Labour party and probably the SNP would allay any of your fears!

 

[ROSM]

Whilst I understand the calls for switching voting method, I do like the idea of seeing a relationship between an mp and their constituency. Having party lists makes it much harder for true independents to make their mark.

But its also difficult to draw a true parallel between votes cast in this election just gone and how someone would vote if every vote counted

 

[yxee]

Apart from the "shy" Tories who told the pollsters they were undecided but were intent on voting for the Conservatives the polling organisations may uncover another group , "lie" Tories who say they're voting for another party just to **** the polls up even more.

Conspiracy! How exciting.

 

[nicko31]

If you could point me in the direction of anything quite as virulent and personal as the kind of stuff published in the Mail and Sun I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong. I actually gained a bit of respect for Milliband over the course of the campaign for how much shit he took.

And my wider point is, all party politics aside, how did it come to this? That our press could be run as mouth pieces for individuals pushing their own agendas in such a spiteful, childish way. It's depressing. I mean, how can one man donate over a million quid to one party, then use his 'news'paper to tell us all to vote for that party? Newspapers have always have political leanings, we all know that, but they're no more than play things these days. Bit like big football clubs.

Sadly print media has been a right wing propaganda tool in these isles for decades, at least the phone hacking scandal derailed yet more concentration of media ownership, the Tories were gutted though

 

[Stato]

Whilst I understand the calls for switching voting method, I do like the idea of seeing a relationship between an mp and their constituency. Having party lists makes it much harder for true independents to make their mark.

But its also difficult to draw a true parallel between votes cast in this election just gone and how someone would vote if every vote counted

The constituency link has previously been used as an argument against PR, but I think it ignores those of us in constituencies that don't feel they have representation under the existing system. I have always had a Tory or Lib Dem MP and, should the need arise, wouldn't feel comfortable approaching either for help. Should PR introduce regional multiple representation, constituents could approach the MP that they feel would support them. This gives options not currently available to Tories in the North East, Labour voters in the South East and both in Scotland.

Taking the fight for Falmer as an example, multiple MPs for the region could have given those of us in the Lewes constituency representation from a parliamentary voice who was not supporting the other side. Under the current system, my only option was to write to Norman Baker. He wasn't keen.

 

[simmo]

[/U][/B]

Labour supporters are absolutely vitriolic in their hatred of the Tory party, yet Tories are just dismissive of the Labour party and their policies.

That sentence, just sums it all up perfectly. Also the actions of some of those (i.e daubing political slogans on memorials to WWII heroes) that cannot accept the democratic will of the British people last week, show this.

 

[dazzer6666]

What a load of bollocks. If true PR had been used then the MP split would be :

Tories = 240 MPs
Labour = 195
UKIP = 84
Lib Dems = 52
SNP = 32
Green = 26

This possibly shows how difficult things would be under PR. There would be months of wrangling and shady deal-making behind the scenes given the nature of UK politics ('we'll support your policy if.......' etc) to either form an effective coalition. Cameron would be PM (as the tories would have the most seats) but policy after policy would likely to be derailed by the others I reckon, meaning passing anything would become impossible.

 

[Soulman]

Sadly print media has been a right wing propaganda tool in these isles for decades, at least the phone hacking scandal derailed yet more concentration of media ownership, the Tories were gutted though

Keep making excuses, at the end of the day many voters do not trust the Tories, unfortunately they trust Labour even less.

 

[yxee]

This possibly shows how difficult things would be under PR. There would be months of wrangling and shady deal-making behind the scenes given the nature of UK politics ('we'll support your policy if.......' etc) to either form an effective coalition. Cameron would be PM (as the tories would have the most seats) but policy after policy would likely to be derailed by the others I reckon, meaning passing anything would become impossible.

I don't really think that this is a bad thing. If people vote in a way that makes passing some law become very difficult, then surely the lesson is that people don't want that law!

The current system does the opposite- it skews the vote in a way that creates more extreme legislation possible. Tories get 10 years, do lots of Tory things. Labour get 10 years, reverse the changes. Tories re-reverse these changes. All because of 5% swing back and forth. First past the post is one big political amplifier. Proportional representation is a buffer.

There's far too much "change" and "action needed" in the manifestos. Where was the option for "I'm happy, let's keep things like they are right now"?