'Always the victim, it's never your fault', a chant too far?

[El Presidente]

United have condemned their fans for singing this yesterday at OT. Is that a fair condemnation or further evidence of the sanitisation of the game and the Dianafication of hand wringers who think they know what is 'best' for us?

FWIW I know plenty of United fans who hate Scousers as much as we hate Palace, and had years of 'Munich 58' taunts, I was at one of the matches a good few years ago and a Liverpool fan threw a toy aeroplane onto the pitch at OT, to the amusement of those around him and as expected provoking a hostile reaction from the locals. However, the chants yesterday were anti-Liverpool, not in relation to Hillsborough, and that rivalry and loathing should be part of the game surely?

At football we say things that we would not necessarily say in general conversation, and normally mild mannered folk who help the aged cross the road turn into eye-bulging foul mouthed ranters for 90 minutes in a way that Dr Bruce Banner might consider to be extreme change of character. To me this is part of the game, and whilst the Palace songs can get a bit tedious and I would rather focus on the Albion, I understand where others are coming from.

Thoughts?

 

[bhanutz]

I was listening to a phone in when a scouser was moaning about this, saying just because it's United they get away with it. Although I dont condone the chanting in any way, he conveniently didnt mention the Munich chanting therefore not really giving a balanced argument. Just kinda kept saying its always Man Utd fans that ruin things.

 

[bazbha]

I don't think this weekend was the time for the "always the victim" chant as it was a time to respect the 96 that died. However generally I think its totally justified as Liverpool fans & scousers in general do love playing the victim.

 

[Dominoid]

Liverpool fans being ***** about Man Utd fans surely doesn't excuse Man Utd fans being ***** about Liverpool fans though. I think it's fair condemnation to be honest. It's not that bad and there's probably worse things chanted at us over the years, but nonetheless it's still a shitty thing to do.

 

[Simster]

I agree with El Pres (it's "Always the victim, it's never your fault") and heard that same scouser as [MENTION=3792]bhanutz[/MENTION] and thought he was f***ing embarrassing.

But still, I think it was poor form for the mancs to sing it *then*. It's not the same game as it was in the 80s and 90s when the bin dippers (and Leeds and Citeh too) would sing that Munich song.

 

[looney]

Thoughts?

Nah. Cant be bothered to think before posting any more its to time consuming.

 

[Marxo]

Haters use football to hate on a bigger stage.

 

[Worthingite]

What's the difference between a cow and a tragedy? A scouser wouldn't know how to milk a cow.

Harsh, maybe, but the cap certainly fits with them at times.

 

[BHA Swiifty]

the phrase "Your both as bad as eachother" comes to mind...

 

[El Presidente]

'Always the victim, never to blame', a chant too far?

What's the difference between a cow and a tragedy? A scouser wouldn't know how to milk a cow.

Harsh, maybe, but the cap certainly fits with them at times.

But not in relation to Hillsborough surely, or would you say different?

 

[drew]

So are both Utd and Liverpool telling us that when their fans are making these chants, they can't identify the seats they are coming from and then by the magic of computer database, ban the fan that bought that ticket. If he passed the ticket on he still gets the ban unless he gives the name of the person who did sit there and it is subsequently verified. If they are STH they lose the ticket. If people can't get to the game then a) they can't insult the opposition and b) deterrent to others. Unfortunately, the clubs aren't serious about stopping it!

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

'Always the victim, never to blame', a chant too far?

Personally, I find all this loathing bloody tedious.

Rivalry is great and a potentially energising, motivating ingredient in football - but I personally think it is mostly wasted when the energy is expended on attendance threads, toe-curling 'Stand Up If You Hate Palace' chants, 'Are you obsessed with us?' threads, Munich and Hillsborough chants, 'No Surrender to the IRA' crap etc.

 

[Bwian]

I don't think this weekend was the time for the "always the victim" chant as it was a time to respect the 96 that died. However generally I think its totally justified as Liverpool fans & scousers in general do love playing the victim.

You mean playing the victim for the last 23 years when all they were doing was looking for the truth to come out about being totally f***ing stitched up by S Yorks Police, The Scum and numerous Tory politicians?

Yes, you're right, they really played the victim didn't they?

 

[Bwian]

Personally, I find all this loathing bloody tedious.

Rivalry is great and a potentially energising, motivating ingredient in football - but I personally think it is mostly wasted when the energy is expended on attendance threads, toe-curling 'Stand Up If You Hate Palace' chants, 'Are you obsessed with us?' threads, Munich and Hillsborough chants, 'No Surrender to the IRA' crap etc.

It's pathetic isn't it?

Be prepared for the 'only banter' brigade to wade in.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I say things I don't necessarily mean in a state of anger. I can't say I have ever felt the need to make trivial of people dying, for the sake of banter.

I fail to see why a 'group of lads letting off steam' trivialises something that people would not throw into conversation in everyday life.

It doesn't say much for peoples imaginations if all they can come up with is an insult, passed off as 'banter'.

I'd rather sing something catchy and imaginative, personally. I'm probably just a bore and not in touch with the salt of the earth football fans.

The finest away fans, I have seen, were FCUM. Just having a good time, enjoying themselves without feeling the need to try and insult someone.

 

[Worthingite]

But not in relation to Hillsborough surely, or would you say different?

ermm.........Honestly? I think that Hillsborough was a tragedy, and the press and S Yorks Police, amongst others, let the families down. And I believe that justice SHOULD be done for the people that never came home that day.....

That said, I kind of resent the looming spectre of the Hillsborough disaster that hangs over football in general. Any change to the way LFC is run, or any change in stance to anything like Safe Standing, Policing at grounds etc, ALWAYS WITHOUT FAIL has somebody from the JF96 campaign being quoted on it. So yeah, I do believe - to an extent - that Hillsborough is "milked" (for want of a better word) by a large proportion of Liverpool fans - mainly, it has to be said, by a lot of LFC fans that were not there that day. I know this probably isn't going to be popular on here, I can TOTALLY understand WHY Hillsborough is mentioned so much, but I think the implications of what happened that day have changed football, and not all for the better. A lot of things that happened that day, could have been avoided, and as such, weren't as "unsafe" as people suggest (Terraces for instance)

 

[Horsham Gull]

Just as a side note are Man Utd and Liverpool playing each other next weekend? could make interesting reading...

 

[cyrilthesinik]

I can see why they sang it. Sorry but we are all now being told it was all the polices fault! Come on, the real truth is somewhere in the middle of the first enquiry and the latest released files. The police where to blame but so where the fans who turned up late and expected to be let in in time for kick off. A very sad story all round, but in a way I can understand the Utd fans singing it. There are Liverpool fans today that know deep down they played their part in those deaths just the same as there are Police officers alive that know they failed that day.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I say things I don't necessarily mean in a state of anger. I can't say I have ever felt the need to make trivial of people dying, for the sake of banter.

I fail to see why a 'group of lads letting off steam' trivialises something that people would not throw into conversation in everyday life.

It doesn't say much for peoples imaginations if all they can come up with is an insult, passed off as 'banter'.

I'd rather sing something catchy and imaginative, personally. I'm probably just a bore and not in touch with the salt of the earth football fans.

The finest away fans, I have seen, were FCUM. Just having a good time, enjoying themselves without feeling the need to try and insult someone.

I'm in agreement with you and probably a bore also. I love supporting my team but can't be bothered with winding up the opposing fans.