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[Finance] A Cashless Society.







BrianB

Sleepy Mid Sussex
Nov 14, 2020
474
Sweden ... I'm sure I read somewhere (5ish years ago) that the government there recommended that each household kept a sum of cash (£400?) locked away at home to protect themselves from the internet crashing .
 










Brightonfan1983

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
4,863
UK
Interesting article, albeit from the point of view from a cashless service provider, but gives an insight into hidden costs of cash.
Interesting, and the BBC article cited should be read too, for a bit o' balance.

 




Papak

Not an NSC licker...
Jul 11, 2003
2,252
Horsham
That's happened already; the bank I went to is shutting down this week! I think there's a way to get from an ATM without a card but I've not used it yet. But that would be useless if everything is cashless.

And those people who say loading a card on your phone would solve this: it doesn't, because if you stop your card when it's lost, then the one loaded on your phone is stopped too.
There is with NatWest and I've used it. You need to use their app and you get a special code which will give you cash - this of course would be no good in a cashless society but maybe the ATM could dispense a card instead?

I'm in favour of cash being an option, I don't want "them" knowing what I spend my money on. I've seen too many stories in the media of mortgage applications being scrutinised over spending habits.
 






Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,801
Uffern
The card I have is a virtual debit card, it has a different number to the physical debit card I also have on the same account. This is why it works when I lost all my physical cards. Maybe your bank also offers this?

The issues you have stated with losing your cards all seem to be resolved with current processes and tech.
My bank does virtual credit cards but not virtual debit ones (although that may well change soon), so not much good to me.

I'm sure that there will be a greater push to a cashless society but I think it will take longer than people think.
 


Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,801
Uffern
I'm in favour of cash being an option, I don't want "them" knowing what I spend my money on. I've seen too many stories in the media of mortgage applications being scrutinised over spending habits.
Ha, I remember in my last week of uni begging for an increase in my overdraft for essential living ... and then being called in to the manager's office when I wrote a cheque to a beer company. Our essential living included an end-of-term party. It was a pretty uncomfortable grilling and bang went any chance of another increase
 




Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
62,381
The Fatherland
Ha, I remember in my last week of uni begging for an increase in my overdraft for essential living ... and then being called in to the manager's office when I wrote a cheque to a beer company. Our essential living included an end-of-term party. It was a pretty uncomfortable grilling and bang went any chance of another increase
Ha. Similar. When I graduated I went to see my bank manager about extending my overdraft. I had a job lined up but needed more money until I got my first pay Chequers, I also wanted to buy a bike to cycle to work. I had already gone above my agreed limit but I said it was for essentials like you did. He poured over my account and then asked “is Brighton and Hove Albion essential?” Quick thinking I said I needed physical money and had bought some tickets for my brother who paid me in full and in cash. He paused, looked at me and said he was a Wimbledon fan. We struck up conversation and eventually he agreed to my request.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
55,627
Faversham
Best long-term argument I've heard for "against" is that £10 isn't worth £10 after just one transaction. Leaving Shops to one side (the major places where one has always tended use card payments), the chiropractor you go to, or the local bike repair shop, or the little pub on the corner, it's always best to pay in cash if you can.

The really interesting science programme Secret Genius of Modern Life (iPlayer) looks at how credit cards came to be; fascinating on its own, but the technology behind 'tapping' is astounding, what the card people (usually Visa) do in a fraction of a second is amazing - my point being that it has to be paid for. So why pay for it if you don't have to?
Apologies if someone else has mentioned this already but when was the last time a discount was available for cash? Outside of tax avoidance?
 






larus

Well-known member
There’s a big difference between using a debit/credit card and CBDC.

With a CDBC, built on block-chain technology, the central bank/government will have full visibility of all of your transactions. To be clear, this is not that you have spent £100 in Sainsbury’s (which is what currently happens with e debit/credit card), but every item that you have bought in Sainsbury’s.

A CDBC will be programmable. They (the government) will have the ability to limit what you can/cannot spend your money on. For example, if the government thinks you’ve bought too much alcohol, meat, or petrol etc., they would be able to restrict this.

Then think about what’s happened to Nigel Farage and Gina Miller having their back accounts closed. What happens of the government thinks that you protesting against their policies is wrong and they close down your account. That would never happen you think - well, it did last year in Canada during the trucker protest against vaccines mandates. Trudeau implemented legislation called the Emergencies Act and they locked the accounts of numerous protestors.

This is not conspiracy theory bollocks - this is what ‘they’ want to implement.

If you think that the people who are concerned about the WEF are nutters, then listen to this from Gordon Brown sucking up to Klaus Schwab (self appointed leader of the WEF).



Why should the government have full visibility as to what I (or anyone) chooses to spend my money on? They are not there to control, our lives, they are elected to serve US. Not the other way around.
 


larus

Well-known member
There’s a big difference between using a debit/credit card and CBDC.

With a CDBC, built on block-chain technology, the central bank/government will have full visibility of all of your transactions. To be clear, this is not that you have spent £100 in Sainsbury’s (which is what currently happens with e debit/credit card), but every item that you have bought in Sainsbury’s.

A CDBC will be programmable. They (the government) will have the ability to limit what you can/cannot spend your money on. For example, if the government thinks you’ve bought too much alcohol, meat, or petrol etc., they would be able to restrict this.

Then think about what’s happened to Nigel Farage and Gina Miller having their back accounts closed. What happens of the government thinks that you protesting against their policies is wrong and they close down your account. That would never happen you think - well, it did last year in Canada during the trucker protest against vaccines mandates. Trudeau implemented legislation called the Emergencies Act and they locked the accounts of numerous protestors.

This is not conspiracy theory bollocks - this is what ‘they’ want to implement.

If you think that the people who are concerned about the WEF are nutters, then listen to this from Gordon Brown sucking up to Klaus Schwab (self appointed leader of the WEF).



Why should the government have full visibility as to what I (or anyone) chooses to spend my money on? They are not there to control, our lives, they are elected to serve US. Not the other way around.


Someone speaking at the WEF (yep, all a conspiracy theory) about programmable CBDC.

 




beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,940
There’s a big difference between using a debit/credit card and CBDC.

With a CDBC, built on block-chain technology, the central bank/government will have full visibility of all of your transactions. To be clear, this is not that you have spent £100 in Sainsbury’s (which is what currently happens with e debit/credit card), but every item that you have bought in Sainsbury’s.

A CDBC will be programmable. They (the government) will have the ability to limit what you can/cannot spend your money on. For example, if the government thinks you’ve bought too much alcohol, meat, or petrol etc., they would be able to restrict this.

Then think about what’s happened to Nigel Farage and Gina Miller having their back accounts closed. What happens of the government thinks that you protesting against their policies is wrong and they close down your account. That would never happen you think - well, it did last year in Canada during the trucker protest against vaccines mandates. Trudeau implemented legislation called the Emergencies Act and they locked the accounts of numerous protestors.

This is not conspiracy theory bollocks - this is what ‘they’ want to implement.

If you think that the people who are concerned about the WEF are nutters, then listen to this from Gordon Brown sucking up to Klaus Schwab (self appointed leader of the WEF).



Why should the government have full visibility as to what I (or anyone) chooses to spend my money on? They are not there to control, our lives, they are elected to serve US. Not the other way around.

the thing i dont understand with this theory is why they would want to, and if they did why they couldnt do it without CDBC. indeed they have done this with rationing. they can require banks and shops to provide itemised billing info into the central computer to analyse. they can request banks accounts be shut, payments blocked. the thing that stops them is our liberabl democracy, captialism (not so easy to make money restricting spending) and law. the technology might make it easier to implement, changing all law and sense of democracy would be a larger hurdle that CDBC doesnt help with.
 




Jackthelad

Well-known member
Mar 31, 2010
1,045
A full cashless society is madness. It will be like China's social credit system. You are basically giving all your money and trust to the banks and government which history tells us is a terrible idea.

The WEF who of course pushing this has admitted it will come with dangers. They ominously mentioned "digital hacking" a "digital reset" in a world with Russia and China this really could mean theft on a scale we have never seen before. Not only that, your digital money could just be turned off. And if we ever have lockdowns again then CBDC will be used to make sure you can buy only what the government allow you to buy.
 


larus

Well-known member
the thing i dont understand with this theory is why they would want to, and if they did why they couldnt do it without CDBC. indeed they have done this with rationing. they can require banks and shops to provide itemised billing info into the central computer to analyse. they can request banks accounts be shut, payments blocked. the thing that stops them is our liberabl democracy, captialism (not so easy to make money restricting spending) and law. the technology might make it easier to implement, changing all law and sense of democracy would be a larger hurdle that CDBC doesnt help with.
It’s not a theory though. That guy from the WEF (2nd link) explains what they can do with a programmable CBDC.

Next point - you ask “why?“. If you look at the people who are linked to the WEF, it’s the elites/politicians/top leaders in industry etc. It comes down to control and power.

They can’t currently get itemised shopping to the government - with a CDBC they will be able to. It allows a credit score system.

The next stop will be digital ID, mandatory vaccinations (if they can get away with it) - all of your information on one system, available for those in power to control you.

I don’t trust those in power - be that Labour, Tories or civil servants. They don’t need to know the ins and outs of everyones life. We have historically been a free nation and we elect politicians to serve us, not as our masters.

We’re one of the most heavily surveiled countries ion the world now - has that made people safe? Crimes don’t get prosecuted/pursued unles you happen to miss gender someone on social media. Victim of burglary - sorry, too busy, log it on the website.
 


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