Cameron v Miliband v Clegg: the official Question Time match thread

Bry Nylon said:

I think Ed Milliband stumbling sideways off the podium whilst attempting to wave goodbye to the audience may have been his "Kinnock falling into the sea on Brighton beach" moment.

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jimbob5 said:

Probably the easy winner.

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dazzer6666 said:

Thought he'd leave a window open for some wriggle room but he seems to have slammed it shut. Odd, as it's the only way I could see him getting in to no 10.

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Ernest said:

It's quite clear that Labour are fighting for a majority whilst the Tories are prepared to weasel their way in by any means necessary

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Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:

Do you not think that the British Public deserve the chance to have their say? .

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Kosmonaut said:

They can have their say at the election.

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Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:

So let's have the debate, have a referendum and then (hopefully) stay in and move on.

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Kosmonaut said:

I'd predict the stay in vote would just win, but it would be uncomfortably close, just like the Scottish independence vote was uncomfortably close. I wouldn't want to risk it.

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DumLum said:

It didn't do Madonna any harm.

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Triggaaar said:

Labour are most liklely to form a minority government, with less seats than the conservatives.

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heathgate said:

Can't happen surely.....the party with the most seats will decide.....

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Plooks said:

He is clearly running scared, otherwise he would have turned up.

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Raleigh Chopper said:

And more children living in poverty than ever before.
People queuing up at food banks because they have to make a decision whether to heat the house or feed the kids.
Still, as long as you get to Birmingham 20 minutes faster on your multi billion HS2.

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Diego Napier said:

Amazingly selective Mr Ant/Termite; try another selection from the Huffington Post:

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on" - Winston Churchill
As a Conservative I have no pleasure in exposing David Cameron's deficit claims. However, as long as the party continues to talk down the economy via the blame game, confidence will not be given an opportunity to return. For it is an undeniable and inescapable economic fact: without confidence and certainty there can be no real growth.
Below are the three deficit claims - the mess. The evidence comes from the IMF, OECD, OBR, HM Treasury, ONS and even George Osborne. The claims put into context are:
CLAIM 1
The last government left the biggest debt in the developed world.
After continuously stating the UK had the biggest debt in the world George Osborne admits to the Treasury Select Committee that he did not know the UK had the lowest debt in the G7? Watch: Also, confirmed by the OECD Those who use cash terms (instead of percentages) do so to scare, mislead and give half the story.
Its common sense, in cash terms a millionaire's debt would be greater than most people. Therefore, the UK would have a higher debt and deficit than most countries because, we are the sixth largest economy. Hence, its laughable to compare UK's debt and deficit with Tuvalu's who only have a GDP/Income of £24 million whilst, the UK's income is £1.7 Trillion.
Finally, Labour in 1997 inherited a debt of 42% of GDP. By the start of the global banking crises 2008 the debt had fallen to 35% - a near 22% reduction page 6 ONSSurprisingly, a debt of 42% was not seen as a major problem and yet at 35% the sky was falling down?
CLAIM 2
Labour created the biggest deficit in the developed world by overspending.
Firstly, the much banded about 2010 deficit of over 11% is false. This is the PSNB (total borrowings) and not the actual budget deficit which was -7.7% - OBR Economic and Fiscal Outlook March 2012 page 19 table 1.2
Secondly, in 1997 Labour inherited a deficit of 3.9% of GDP (not a balanced budget ) and by 2008 it had fallen to 2.1% - a reduction of a near 50% - Impressive! Hence, it's implausible and ludicrous to claim there was overspending. The deficit was then exacerbated by the global banking crises after 2008. See HM Treasury. Note, the 1994 deficit of near 8% haaaaaah!
Thirdly, the IMF have also concluded the same. They reveal the UK experienced an increase in the deficit as result of a large loss in output/GDP caused by the global banking crisis and not even as result of the bank bailouts, fiscal stimulus and bringing forward of capital spending. It's basic economics: when output falls the deficit increases.
Finally, the large loss in output occurred because the UK like the US have the biggest financial centres and as this was a global banking crises we suffered the most. Hence, the UK had the 2nd highest deficit in the G7 (Not The World) after the US and not as a result of overspending prior to and after 2008- as the IMF concur.
CLAIM 3
Our borrowing costs are low because the markets have confidence in George Osborne's austerity plan and without it the UK will end up like Greece.
Yes, the markets have confidence in our austerity plan and that's why PIMCO the worlds largest bond holder have been warning against buying UK debt.
The real reason why our borrowing costs have fallen and remained low since 2008 is because, savings have increased. As a result, the demand and price for bonds have increased and as there is inverse relationship between the price of bonds and its yield (interest rate) the rates have fallen. Also, the markets expect the economy to remain stagnate. Which means the price for bonds will remain high and hence, our borrowing costs will also remain low.
Secondly, the UK is considered a safe heaven because, investors are reassured the Bank of England will buy up bonds in an event of any sell off - which increases the price of bonds and reduces the effective rate. Note, how rates fell across the EU recently when the ECB announced its bond buying program. Thirdly, because, we are not in the Euro we can devalue our currency to increase exports. Moreover, UK bonds are attractive because, we haven't defaulted on its debt for over 300 years.
David Cameron would like people to believe the markets lend in the same way as retail banks lend to you and I.
Overall, when the facts and figures are put into context these juvenile deficit narratives and sound bites ("mere words and no evidence") simply fail to stand up to the actual facts. The deficit myth is the grosses lie ever enforced upon the people and it has been sold by exploiting people's economic illiteracy.
So, David Cameron when are you going to apologise?
Cameron is playing the blame game to depress confidence and growth to justify austerity. Secondly, to use austerity as justification for a smaller state to gain lower taxes. Thirdly, to paint Labour as a party that can not be trusted with the country's finances again. Therefore, we Conservatives will win a second term because, people vote out of fear. The latter strategy worked the last time in office (18 years) and will work again because, in the end, elections are won and lost on economic credibility. Hence, as people believe Labour created the mess they won't be trusted again.
Finally, as the truth is the greatest enemy of the a lie I urge you to share this on Facebook, Twitter, blogs, text and email etc etc. So the truth can be discovered by all.
www.twitter.com/Ramesh1Patel

Finally, have no doubt, people have been mislead by the use of the following strategy:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" Joseph Goebbels

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Seagull on the wing said:

Poverty...please define that word...I have travelled the world and have seen real poverty...here being in poverty means your little darlings not having the latest 'in' trainers.
We never had food banks in the early 1900s and if you lost your husband during the WW1 ..you went and worked,no dole money.
My gran lived in a two up two down house in the back streets of Brighton with no electricity,just a cold tap outside and two children to raise. That is poverty.
Todays ( poverty) society want,want,want and they want it now,won't work and want the working people to carry on working so they can get benefits,of course there are genuine claimants.

...you don't like food banks...neither do I, So do we stop all food banks...then what will we do....Oh! The wicked Tories have taken away our free...I mean our food banks..

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Seagull on the wing said:

So the word of a New Zealand hockey player who is a friend of Russel Brand is gospel?

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Seagull on the wing said:

Poverty...please define that word...I have travelled the world and have seen real poverty...here being in poverty means your little darlings not having the latest 'in' trainers.
We never had food banks in the early 1900s and if you lost your husband during the WW1 ..you went and worked,no dole money.
My gran lived in a two up two down house in the back streets of Brighton with no electricity,just a cold tap outside and two children to raise. That is poverty.
Todays ( poverty) society want,want,want and they want it now,won't work and want the working people to carry on working so they can get benefits,of course there are genuine claimants.

...you don't like food banks...neither do I, So do we stop all food banks...then what will we do....Oh! The wicked Tories have taken away our free...I mean our food banks..

Click to expand...

Seagull on the wing said:

So the word of a New Zealand hockey player who is a friend of Russel Brand is gospel?

Click to expand...

Seagull on the wing said:

Poverty...please define that word...I have travelled the world and have seen real poverty...here being in poverty means your little darlings not having the latest 'in' trainers.
We never had food banks in the early 1900s and if you lost your husband during the WW1 ..you went and worked,no dole money.
My gran lived in a two up two down house in the back streets of Brighton with no electricity,just a cold tap outside and two children to raise. That is poverty.
Todays ( poverty) society want,want,want and they want it now,won't work and want the working people to carry on working so they can get benefits,of course there are genuine claimants.

...you don't like food banks...neither do I, So do we stop all food banks...then what will we do....Oh! The wicked Tories have taken away our free...I mean our food banks..

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Raleigh Chopper said:

People queuing up at food banks because they have to make a decision whether to heat the house or feed the kids.

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Raleigh Chopper said:

People queuing up at food banks because they have to make a decision whether to heat the house or feed the kids.

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