Ched Evans

Barry Stir · Nov 18, 2014

Of course those two actions don't but the jury, of twelve people who didn't know Evans or the victim, decided, unanimously, that he is a rapist. Why would they do that if the case was not proven to the requisite standard?

Rape, as everyone knows, is notoriously difficult to prove so how, if this case is so inherently weak, was he convicted?

They had the advantage over all of us of hearing the evidence and he was disbelieved on oath when he told them she consented. How and why would anyone need more proof than that?

dazzer6666 · Nov 18, 2014

Barry Stir said:
Of course those two actions don't but the jury, of twelve people who didn't know Evans or the victim, decided, unanimously, that he is a rapist. Why would they do that if the case was not proven to the requisite standard?

Rape, as everyone knows, is notoriously difficult to prove so how, if this case is so inherently weak, was he convicted?

They had the advantage over all of us of hearing the evidence and he was disbelieved on oath when he told them she consented. How and why would anyone need more proof than that?

Absolutely.

JCL - the new kid in town · Nov 18, 2014

drew said:
I agree that those actions are a bit odd but those two things alone don't make you guilty of rape.

Maybe not however most people don't turn up uninvited and sneak into rooms that is highly suspicious and could be what swung the jury. Maybe he thought he'd just go watch his mate have sex or surprise him and that's why his mates were outside filming to see the reaction, and it may have started out as "just a laugh" but got carried away but that doesn't make him not guilty.

The Camel · Nov 18, 2014

dazzer6666 said:
guildford 4 case has no relevance.

Interesting to look at stats on appeals. Of c25,000 cases pa heard in the criminal court, around 200 appeals were allowed in 2011. Don't know how many of these were successful but even if it was all of them, it's less than 1%, indicating a pretty good success rate for decisions by jury. The odd miscarriage doesn't make this one of them. Would be fascinating to know on what basis the jury were sure of his guilt but we never will.

I do, though, completely get his refusal to publicly apologise or show remorse (for rape, not his general behaviour) if he believes he's not guilty - he has to take that stance otherwise he's admitting guilt, but as things stand, he's guilty and should be treated as such, which certainly in my book means being allowed nowhere near a football club.

He could have easily gone down a different route.

"I honestly believed she had consented, but now I know my initial thought to be incorrect"

And then gone down the route of talking to young men about rape, consent, respecting women etc etc

I think he would have been accepted back into football fairly rapidly.

But whether the rich family of his girlfriend who are bankrolling his campaign would have ok'ed this is highly questionable.

drew · Nov 18, 2014

JCL - the new kid in town said:
Maybe not however most people don't turn up uninvited and sneak into rooms that is highly suspicious and could be what swung the jury. Maybe he thought he'd just go watch his mate have sex or surprise him and that's why his mates were outside filming to see the reaction, and it may have started out as "just a laugh" but got carried away but that doesn't make him not guilty.

Both plausible. It also doesn't make him guilty either. What makes him guilty is the absence of consent. Both McDonald and Evans say she consented and she can't remember. The jury decided they believe her.

dazzer6666 · Nov 19, 2014

drew said:
Both plausible. It also doesn't make him guilty either. What makes him guilty is the absence of consent. Both McDonald and Evans say she consented and she can't remember. The jury decided they believe her.

Agree - what we don't have though are all the factors/evidence that led them to that unanimous conclusion

Steve.S · Nov 19, 2014

dazzer6666 said:
Agree - what we don't have though are all the factors/evidence that led them to that unanimous conclusion

Lets close the thread on your post.nobody on here served on the jury, or sat in court listening to the evidence and heard what each of the witnesses had to say on the matter. The jury did and they found him guilty. People have also mentioned the video evidence as some prove that she was not as drunk as was made out, utter rubbish it was not just video evidence produced in court, it was backed up by witnesses that saw her and medical evidence. At the end of the day it was said that she was raped and Evans admits that he had sex with her, therefore the jury decided to believe the victim rather then him, just like most court cases where someone pleads not guilty. The jury have to weigh up the evidence and come to a conclusion, which they did. Nobody on here is privy to all the court proceedings and how each of the men and the victim came across in court.

Tooting Gull · Nov 19, 2014

Has everyone seen this? 'Keep your knickers on'. Surprised he's still got his job, that's much worse than what happened on the Albion phone-in.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/19/bbc-knickers-on-nick-conrad-rapist-ched-evans

hans kraay fan club · Nov 19, 2014

Tooting Gull said:
Has everyone seen this? 'Keep your knickers on'. Surprised he's still got his job, that's much worse than what happened on the Albion phone-in.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/19/bbc-knickers-on-nick-conrad-rapist-ched-evans

“And it’s the old adage about if you yank a dog’s tale then don’t be surprised when it bites you.

“Or you can’t keep snakes in the garden and think they’ll only bite your neighbours.”

#Partridge

aolstudios · Nov 19, 2014

Tooting Gull said:
Has everyone seen this? 'Keep your knickers on'. Surprised he's still got his job, that's much worse than what happened on the Albion phone-in.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/19/bbc-knickers-on-nick-conrad-rapist-ched-evans

What an absolute twunt

Frampler · Nov 19, 2014

Tooting Gull said:
Has everyone seen this? 'Keep your knickers on'. Surprised he's still got his job, that's much worse than what happened on the Albion phone-in.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/19/bbc-knickers-on-nick-conrad-rapist-ched-evans

Wow. What an idiot.

Birdie Boy · Nov 19, 2014

How many people do you know that drink, even seriously heavy, on a night out and cannot remember what happened days, weeks, months later? I sometimes forget but as soon as someone mentions something that happened, I remember. I can honestly say that I only know of one person that says categorically that they cannot remember events of a night out later on but I am convinced that is either cr@p or he is embarrassed about what he got up to...

hans kraay fan club · Nov 19, 2014

Birdie Boy said:
How many people do you know that drink, even seriously heavy, on a night out and cannot remember what happened days, weeks, months later?

I have done, in my less sensible past.

aolstudios · Nov 19, 2014

hans kraay fan club said:
I have done, in my less sensible past.

me too

Herr Tubthumper · Nov 19, 2014

Birdie Boy said:
How many people do you know that drink, even seriously heavy, on a night out and cannot remember what happened days, weeks, months later? I sometimes forget but as soon as someone mentions something that happened, I remember. I can honestly say that I only know of one person that says categorically that they cannot remember events of a night out later on but I am convinced that is either cr@p or he is embarrassed about what he got up to...

Quite a few times, in my less-sensible, especially student days.

Hillian1 · Nov 19, 2014

Birdie Boy said:
How many people do you know that drink, even seriously heavy, on a night out and cannot remember what happened days, weeks, months later? I sometimes forget but as soon as someone mentions something that happened, I remember. I can honestly say that I only know of one person that says categorically that they cannot remember events of a night out later on but I am convinced that is either cr@p or he is embarrassed about what he got up to...

I still, after 20 years, have absolutely no recollection of standing naked in Haywards Heath using my discarded clothing as a cape to bullfight cars.

It definitely happened, the nice Policeman told me so the next morning.

drew · Nov 19, 2014

Hillian1 said:
I still, after 20 years, have absolutely no recollection of standing naked in Haywards Heath using my discarded clothing as a cape to bullfight cars.

It definitely happened, the nice Policeman told me so the next morning.

Herr Tubthumper said:
Quite a few times, in my less-sensible, especially student days.

aolstudios said:
me too

hans kraay fan club said:
I have done, in my less sensible past.

And how much had you all had to drink to get into that state?

Hillian1 · Nov 19, 2014

drew said:
And how much had you all had to drink to get into that state?

Dunno, can't remember.

JCL - the new kid in town · Nov 19, 2014

drew said:
And how much had you all had to drink to get into that state?

one night i had a bottle of wine then a couple of snakebites, not exactly huge amounts but i had some parts i can't remember

JCL - the new kid in town · Nov 19, 2014

drew said:
Both plausible. It also doesn't make him guilty either. What makes him guilty is the absence of consent. Both McDonald and Evans say she consented and she can't remember. The jury decided they believe her.

probably partly because he snuck in to the room univited and later snuck out the back, not exactly the actions of an innocent party. If i snuck into a girls room and had sex with her, who do you think people would believe was right and wrong?

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