[Politics] Brexit

ManOfSussex · Apr 2, 2017

Raleigh Chopper said:
Don't worry folks I am having a game of bowls down on the Hoe just in case.
Apparently Norman Tebbit is down here with his press gang, and a nuclear sub has just left Devonport.

Have you seen any aircraft carriers with aircraft yet? Oh, silly me we haven't got any currently.......................

Tom Hark Preston Park · Apr 2, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
I sugggest you read the history of the Falklands and Gibraltar and get back to me. Neither place was taken by force (clue 1 - the Falklands were uninhabited, clue 2 look up the Treaty of Utrecht)

Like it or not, they'll all go the way of Hong Kong.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 2, 2017

Tom Hark said:
Like it or not, they'll all go the way of Hong Kong.

Hong Kong was on a 99 year lease. Did they teach you history in Scotland?

JC Footy Genius · Apr 2, 2017

We need to string out Brexit negotiations till 2023 then our new carriers will be operational ... don't tell the Spanish.

GT49er · Apr 2, 2017

Tom Hark said:
It's all countries with little or no no geographical bearing to the UK captured by historical naval force, with people from the old country installed either by or against their will, no matter how you like to dress it up. These territories will fall, one by one. The world map will look as far different a hundred years from now as it did a hundred years ago.

So you think it's right that 6th. or 7th. generation Falkland Islanders should be punished for something the British did 184 years ago (something, moreover, which was perfectly normal and legal at that time)? Hardly fair, eh?
Still, I guess having a fairer world counts for nothing compared to the far more important imperative to bash Britain for ever having an Empire, and then voluntarily giving independence to their former colonies.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 2, 2017

GT49er said:
So you think it's right that 6th. or 7th. generation Falkland Islanders should be punished for something the British did 184 years ago (something, moreover, which was perfectly normal and legal at that time)? Hardly fair, eh?
Still, I guess having a fairer world counts for nothing compared to the far more important imperative to bash Britain for ever having an Empire, and then voluntarily giving independence to their former colonies.

267 years. My StepMum was a Falkland Islander, so I know the history.

drew · Apr 2, 2017

Tom Hark said:
Like it or not, they'll all go the way of Hong Kong.

Wasn't Hong Kong on a fixed term lease?

The Falkands were uninhabited and at that time, the country of Argentina didn't even exist!

If Spain want Gibraltar, why aren't they making noises about all the other territories shared out at the time of the Treaty of Utrecht? Perhaps they should give the Canaries to Western Sahara or Morocco?

I take it you're happy to let Eire have the north of the island, maybe the Welsh can go their own way along with the Scots and perhaps Cornwall.

Ideally, London, Mid-Sussex and Brighton could form an independent alliance and ditch the rest of the UK.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Apr 2, 2017

drew said:
Wasn't Hong Kong on a fixed term lease?

The Falkands were uninhabited and at that time, the country of Argentina didn't even exist!

If Spain want Gibraltar, why aren't they making noises about all the other territories shared out at the time of the Treaty of Utrecht? Perhaps they should give the Canaries to Western Sahara or Morocco?

I take it you're happy to let Eire have the north of the island, maybe the Welsh can go their own way along with the Scots and perhaps Cornwall.

Ideally, London, Mid-Sussex and Brighton could form an independent alliance and ditch the rest of the UK.

I take it you would be happy if, say, Argentina, had dropped off a boatload of settlers on the Channel islands a couple of centuries back, and continued to claim sovereignty in the 21st century?

Raleigh Chopper · Apr 2, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
Have you seen any aircraft carriers with aircraft yet? Oh, silly me we haven't got any currently.......................

Not yet, but my eyes are PEELED.
I have my flask and a pastie in case it's a long wait.

Withdean South Stand · Apr 2, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
Why don't you visit those places and tell them how they should live. Anyone would think they hadn't had a vote, and were being held by the Brits by force.
I guess I've just taken your bait.

You shouldn't assume I haven't. I think Gibraltar should have the choice, they voted heavily to Remain I believe. Maybe they'd like a say in their future now it went the other way.

Same as with Scotland, they should have the choice of leaving the UK to remain part of the EU. I am very liberal in my beliefs that history doesn't matter as much as the present day.

What do they want? That's where the debate starts.

Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk

Thunder Bolt · Apr 2, 2017

Withdean South Stand said:
You shouldn't assume I haven't. I think Gibraltar should have the choice, they voted heavily to Remain I believe. Maybe they'd like a say in their future now it went the other way.

Same as with Scotland, they should have the choice of leaving the UK to remain part of the EU. I am very liberal in my beliefs that history doesn't matter as much as the present day.

What do they want? That's where the debate starts.

What do they want? I've already said 99% voted to stay British in both lots of votes.

Btw just to point out in your previous post you mentioned giving back the Falklands. Argentina wasn't a country until 1833, so they've never 'owned' the islands.

Sussex Nomad · Apr 2, 2017

Ernest said:
Apart from the Tory cuts leaving us with a NAVY consisting of a PEDALO from the lagoon I don't see much wrong with that

Unlike the reds of course... http://metro.co.uk/2006/12/31/blair-defence-cuts-risking-lives-522408/

GT49er · Apr 2, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
267 years. My StepMum was a Falkland Islander, so I know the history.

267 years - since 1833? There was an earlier British settlement (1766) but by the 1820s there were no permanent inhabitants, and permission was given (by Buenos Aires) to a German to establish a colony. After sundry squabbles, the British stepped in in 1833.
Be interested (genuinely) in where your 267 years comes from - the Falklands were recorded as being uninhabited until 1764 (when a French colony was set up) - and even that's only 253 years ago............

GT49er · Apr 2, 2017

Tom Hark said:
I take it you would be happy if, say, Argentina, had dropped off a boatload of settlers on the Channel islands a couple of centuries back, and continued to claim sovereignty in the 21st century?

The current arrangements don't seem to bother the French, even though they're much closer to the Channel Islands than we are.

Besides, the Channel Islands weren't uninhabited. Regardless of nasty wicked fascist colonialist imperial Great Britain, the Channel Islanders themselves might well have seen 'em off!

Thunder Bolt · Apr 2, 2017

GT49er said:
267 years - since 1833? There was an earlier British settlement (1766) but by the 1820s there were no permanent inhabitants, and permission was given (by Buenos Aires) to a German to establish a colony. After sundry squabbles, the British stepped in in 1833.
Be interested (genuinely) in where your 267 years comes from - the Falklands were recorded as being uninhabited until 1764 (when a French colony was set up) - and even that's only 253 years ago............

The Falklands were inhabited by Brits in 1750.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 2, 2017

Tom Hark said:
I take it you would be happy if, say, Argentina, had dropped off a boatload of settlers on the Channel islands a couple of centuries back, and continued to claim sovereignty in the 21st century?

Argentina is formed of descendants of Spanish settlers who nearly wiped out the indigenous inhabitants. They can hardly whinge about settlers on uninhabited islands that happened to be nearby, but were abandoned as being too cold and inhospitable.

The irony of this is, the vast majority of Kelpers (islanders) were descended from the Scottish, who moved out of the crofts in Scotland, taking their sheep with them.

GT49er · Apr 2, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
The Falklands were inhabited by Brits in 1750.

Seems like not quite.........."The Falkland Islands have been our home for nearly 200 years. 9 generations of Falkland Islanders have been born and raised in our beautiful and remote Islands." Official Falkland Islands Government website.

https://www.falklands.gov.fk/our-home/

https://www.falklands.gov.fk/our-people/our-history/

Thunder Bolt · Apr 2, 2017

GT49er said:
Seems like not quite.........."The Falkland Islands have been our home for nearly 200 years. 9 generations of Falkland Islanders have been born and raised in our beautiful and remote Islands." Official Falkland Islands Government website.

https://www.falklands.gov.fk/our-home/

https://www.falklands.gov.fk/our-people/our-history/

That's the official history. There were British inhabitants in 1750, but not officially recognised.

knocky1 · Apr 2, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
Argentina is formed of descendants of Spanish settlers who nearly wiped out the indigenous inhabitants. They can hardly whinge about settlers on uninhabited islands that happened to be nearby, but were abandoned as being too cold and inhospitable.

The irony of this is, the vast majority of Kelpers (islanders) were descended from the Scottish, who moved out of the crofts in Scotland, taking their sheep with them.

Argentina also had it's Welsh settlements, a lot of Italians and a few escaping Germans to name a few.
Seems sensible of the Scots to have taken their nearest and dearest with them.

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[Politics] Brexit

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