Theresa May and Alan Durban

Hastings gull · May 3, 2017

GingerBeerMan said:
I think voting against your own party is proof of a man sticking to his principles. The labour party has swung relatively left and right since he became an MP, it's unlikely he will have agreed with every stand they've taken. He's voted against them - the exact definition of sticking to your principles.

Unfortunately, you have missed my point which was about the idea of UNITY. Of course he has voted according to his conscience (and not necessarily what his constituents wanted) and stuck to his principles. However, now that he is top dog, he is appealing to MPs to unite behind him, yet they too would have principles, and those principles will not coincide with his. That is not very principled as he is not so keen on rebellion now!
That was my point.
I think you are also rather down –playing his rebel side saying that he won’t agree with everything that is done. I am sure that is true of all MPS, but Corbyn has made a living out of being the rebel. On another thread, the figure of 427 was mentioned as being the amount of times he has voted against labour Governments –that is rather more than you were casually implying.

Hastings gull · May 3, 2017

glasfryn said:
now do I dislike the tories more than I like voting Labour Hmmmmmmm?
in Eastbourne its liberal democrat then.

the LIB Dems put a leaflet through my door this morning -for the local election tomorrow! The proud headline stated that they are striving for a United Britain. This from the fringe party who are trying to reverse the referendum result.

Lifelong Supporter · May 3, 2017

Hastings gull said:
the LIB Dems put a leaflet through my door this morning -for the local election tomorrow! The proud headline stated that they are striving for a United Britain. This from the fringe party who are trying to reverse the referendum result.

It all rather depends on what you think brexit will bring. I am not convinced that it will bring a united country, far from it. In my view there will be too many scrambling for too little.

portlock seagull · May 3, 2017

Jack Straw said:
Count how many times May says "Strong and stable leadership" and "Coalition of chaos" every time she's interviewed, whilst ducking every question.

It's not her fault. She's doesn't write that shit. 'Hard working families' was Cameron's buzzphrase similarly. These spin doctors have a lot to answer for!!

nicko31 · May 3, 2017

attila said:
May's electioneering strategy reminds me of Alan Durban's legendary managerial tactics with Stoke City circa 1980. Turn up, park the bus and hope nothing happens for ninety minutes (in May's case, six weeks).

Corbyn has an air of last season's Ranieri about him. Only difference is Ranieri *just* had the entire corporate establishment to take on with a massively smaller budget and zero expectations - he didn't also have stories in the Sun and Mail every day saying that he was a dangerous baby-guzzling lunatic and that it was your patriotic duty to support one of the 'top five' 'cos they'd be more successful in Europe!

Of course, Leicester got further than they did there too, and so would Jeremy

May is just keeping her head done and watching the car crashes around her, everyone knows they will win just a case of by how much

That said I rather wear a Palace shirt than vote for these Neo Fascists

Hampster Gull · May 3, 2017

The Tories are an embarrassment but miles better than Corbyn, Abbott and the Labour inner city elite.

Eeyore · May 3, 2017

But we need STRONG and STABLE leadership.

They NEED to get this message OUT. No-one seems to KNOW this.

Hastings gull · May 3, 2017

Lifelong Supporter said:
It all rather depends on what you think brexit will bring. I am not convinced that it will bring a united country, far from it. In my view there will be too many scrambling for too little.

You may be right for all I know. It is too early to tell, but it is ironic to say the least that this is their declared aim, given that they are actively campaigning against the will of the majority. Yes the result was close, but one has to accept it -if one wants unity!

glasfryn · May 3, 2017

Hastings gull said:
the LIB Dems put a leaflet through my door this morning -for the local election tomorrow! The proud headline stated that they are striving for a United Britain. This from the fringe party who are trying to reverse the referendum result.

but me voting Labour in Eastbourne is a wasted vote good council so will be voting that way and general will go with them again as Lloyd is not a bad fellow and its one more away from the tories
I have met the guy and he knows my loyalties are socialist...............but still shook my hand with a good solid shake

TSB · May 3, 2017

Kalimantan Gull said:
So it'll be libdems, but at least I live in a constituency where they have an excellent chance of winning

...Borneo??

clapham_gull · May 3, 2017

Can't think of a time in my lifetime with such bad leaders on all side of the political spectrum.

You struggle to think how these people get to where they are. Of course it happens, but every political party ?

Irrespective of your politics on the "left" ( yes I know ) Blair and the "right" ( which is also open to debate ) Thatcher were absolute giants compared to every incumbent since.

Both interestingly took their traditional party positions on and won over the electorate in the progress.

I voted in ....just.... it has to be said. I'm hugely suspicious of the "European Project" because I think it diffuses democracy and the whole thing was crying out for reform. But I'm equally suspicious of this current shower of shit's ability to get us out correctly.

A European wide vote on "sort yourself out" Europe would have been a wonderful thing. That's what I wanted to vote for and I suspect it would have won the day here if presented to the Electorate in the UK.

GT49er · May 3, 2017

glasfryn said:
I have met the guy and he knows my loyalties are socialist...............but still shook my hand with a good solid shake

Much pressure from his thumb on the back of your hand, by any chance?

crookie · May 4, 2017

clapham_gull said:
Can't think of a time in my lifetime with such bad leaders on all side of the political spectrum.

You struggle to think how these people get to where they are. Of course it happens, but every political party ?

Irrespective of your politics on the "left" ( yes I know ) Blair and the "right" ( which is also open to debate ) Thatcher were absolute giants compared to every incumbent since.

Both interestingly took their traditional party positions on and won over the electorate in the progress.

I voted in ....just.... it has to be said. I'm hugely suspicious of the "European Project" because I think it diffuses democracy and the whole thing was crying out for reform. But I'm equally suspicious of this current shower of shit's ability to get us out correctly.

A European wide vote on "sort yourself out" Europe would have been a wonderful thing. That's what I wanted to vote for and I suspect it would have won the day here if presented to the Electorate in the UK.

Totally agree, I voted out, just, but I have no confidence, from what I have seen so far, of May's ability to negotiate a good deal for all sides. She just seems to have got everything off on the wrong foot, and shouting out about getting "A good deal for the UK" which implies that the EU has been shafted is not likely to win many friends. How about an approach looking for the most pain-free divorce all round that won't horrendously damage the economies of the UK and the EU. This megaphone diplomacy is a recipe for disaster, and incidentally is how Cameron went about it before he came back with his pitiful concessions.

clapham_gull · May 4, 2017

I'm equally appalled by the posturing of European Politicians, spokesman alike.

My take on things and I do piss a lot of people saying this. The urban liberal educated left of center in this country (that's me by the way) got lazy, very lazy, Rather than argue for their ideals they just presumed

1) Left of center decisions in Europe would override any ill-thought out decision by a UK Government.
2) Every one else in the country aspired to be like us.
3) Never really reconciled in their head that their fears ( and guilt about) Globalisation were not dissimilar from the fears of people (rightly or wrongly) that wages were being driven by freedom of movement.

It's really easy now to come out and scream about the inevitable crisis that is about to happen, but I'm sorry. I'm personally come to the conclusion that although I wanted to remain, the fault lies in those who simply accepted it and never thought anything about it should be open to debate and argued for.

Chicken Run · May 4, 2017

Lord Bracknell said:
And you'd trust May? Just take a look at the shambles of a campaign her "strong and stable leadership" is delivering. How deluded can you get?

And, if someone can explain exactly how a vote for the Tory party will strengthen Britain's position in the Brexit negotiations, I'd be very grateful. All she is doing is strengthening the hand of the EU.

Why would anyone waste time with an explanation, you would never vote Tory!

neilbard · May 4, 2017

clapham_gull said:
Can't think of a time in my lifetime with such bad leaders on all side of the political spectrum.

Really are you 3yrs old? :shrug:

glasfryn · May 4, 2017

GT49er said:
Much pressure from his thumb on the back of your hand, by any chance?

errr no

Mo Gosfield · May 4, 2017

GingerBeerMan said:
Corbyn is a man who has stuck to his principles since his early career, May shops and changes her views depending on which is popular at the time.

May is an out and out political animal. Fiercely ambitious and determined. She wouldn't reveal her hand pre-referendum until the final few days of campaigning, when she suddenly declared her support for Remain. Those close to her knew she was really a Brexiteer but she had worked everything out. Remain win, nothing lost for her. She has supported the PM and he will keep her in a position of high office. Leave win and the position of the PM is untenable. Probable vacancy and a good chance she would be a front-runner, even favourite.
Late polls suggested a narrow Remain win. She played her cards late and won the whole kitty.
May is no different from many who have gone before. Some of the most successful PM's have been the most unprincipled.

Kalimantan Gull · May 4, 2017

clapham_gull said:
I'm equally appalled by the posturing of European Politicians, spokesman alike.

My take on things and I do piss a lot of people saying this. The urban liberal educated left of center in this country (that's me by the way) got lazy, very lazy, Rather than argue for their ideals they just presumed

1) Left of center decisions in Europe would override any ill-thought out decision by a UK Government.
2) Every one else in the country aspired to be like us.
3) Never really reconciled in their head that their fears ( and guilt about) Globalisation were not dissimilar from the fears of people (rightly or wrongly) that wages were being driven by freedom of movement.

It's really easy now to come out and scream about the inevitable crisis that is about to happen, but I'm sorry. I'm personally come to the conclusion that although I wanted to remain, the fault lies in those who simply accepted it and never thought anything about it should be open to debate and argued for.

I think thats a pretty good take on it. I feel the same, we got, if not complacent, at least content that the world was moving in our direction without registering how many people were still being left behind. The fact they think the Tories and UKIP are the answer is one hell of a kick in the balls

Hastings gull · May 4, 2017

Kalimantan Gull said:
I think thats a pretty good take on it. I feel the same, we got, if not complacent, at least content that the world was moving in our direction without registering how many people were still being left behind. The fact they think the Tories and UKIP are the answer is one hell of a kick in the balls

Yet another one of these annoyingly arrogant posts, which claim that millions of folk who will vote for the afore-mentioned parties really don't know what they are doing. You start by agreeing that complacency was the main culprit, and end as you do -don't you ever learn?

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