[Politics] Brexit

Deleted member 22389 · May 13, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
We have heard this argument a 101 times. Can you come up with something different?

Like what? All these people do is talk about the finance industry, they fail to forget about the massive economy outside of their banking bubble. We import more than we export, and brexit will not stop people buying goods end of. The country will still be working. Seems to me some in the Remain camp like to talk up recession, it's good for them, because they never lose. Buy low, sell high.

Herr Tubthumper · May 13, 2016

bashlsdir said:
Like what? All these people do is talk about the finance industry, they fail to forget about the massive economy outside of their banking bubble. We import more than we export, and brexit will not stop people buying goods end of. The country will still be working. Seems to me some in the Remain camp like to talk up recession, it's good for them, because they never lose. Buy low, sell high.

I'm not disagreeing, just saying these arguments have been made before, many times, and been debated endlessly. I'd like to hear something new.

Lincoln Imp · May 13, 2016

Mark Carney was not talking about the 'finance industry' when he made his unemotional comments on the results of Brexit yesterday. He was talking about the real world economy of mortgages and credit and inflation and recession that affects ordinary people's lives. His independent monetary policy committee is obliged to raise matters of this kind; not to do so would be a political gesture in itself. The reaction? The entertaining Jacob Rees-Mogg, Member for the 17th Century, suggested he should be fired. Damn right, shut the fool up. People on here will be rattling on about his vested interests. Somebody will say he knows nothing and that he got a prediction wrong in 1991. A polemic from some American website will be waved in our faces to prove that the Governor knows nothing. And on it will go.

heathgate · May 13, 2016

We're doomed....... obviously.

beorhthelm · May 13, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
Mark Carney was not talking about the 'finance industry' when he made his unemotional comments on the results of Brexit yesterday. He was talking about the real world economy of mortgages and credit and inflation and recession that affects ordinary people's lives. His independent monetary policy committee is obliged to raise matters of this kind; not to do so would be a political gesture in itself.

its a matter of what and how you say things. if Carney is correct and its a bad as he suggests, given other detail on what effect Brexit might have, it implies we are already heading for recession. he is basically saying the economy cant take any sort of shock. the problem is one of being self-fulfilling, you say some thing will lead to something, consequently people take that path and the prophecy is fulfilled. see the slow recovery, constant drum beat of austerity (when there hasnt been really) while business sit on historically high levels of cash, keeping it back "just in case". people in Carney's position have to very careful what they say because what they say is taken seriously, he hasnt come with any new *facts* its opinion, here he has out reached his remit.

5ways · May 13, 2016

bashlsdir said:
Like what? All these people do is talk about the finance industry, they fail to forget about the massive economy outside of their banking bubble. We import more than we export, and brexit will not stop people buying goods end of. The country will still be working. Seems to me some in the Remain camp like to talk up recession, it's good for them, because they never lose. Buy low, sell high.

What if I told you that unemployment is at record lows, immigrants subside services in this country and the EU has actually eased the burden on the NHS because 1. we export old people which cost the French and Spanish govt a lot of free health care - far more than EU citizens cost our NHS 2. we import young nurses and doctors to staff our hospitals

5ways · May 13, 2016

pastafarian said:
you seem reluctant to answer.i thought it was a very simple question

i know the quote you posted isnt about NATO,

"the European Community, now Union, has helped to deliver a period of peace and prosperity for its people as long as any since the days of the Antonine emperors."

but why dont you lot mention NATO? why would the Remain camp push the agenda we should be thankful of the EU and not consider NATO in this discussion.Your quote you posted seems a perfect example of the avoiding NATO even exists

I don't know what you're trying to get at. NATO is great. I can only speak for myself but I like NATO. What else do you want?

When it says 'helped' it has been helped not just by the EU but also organisations like NATO. That was never in question. It's just a snappy quote on a poster.

sparkie · May 13, 2016

5ways said:
I don't know what you're trying to get at. NATO is great. I can only speak for myself but I like NATO. What else do you want?

When it says 'helped' it has been helped not just by the EU but also organisations like NATO. That was never in question. It's just a snappy quote on a poster.

Trouble is Mr Trump appears to not be very keen on NATO, let's hope he doesn't get in :nono:

JC Footy Genius · May 13, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
Mark Carney was not talking about the 'finance industry' when he made his unemotional comments on the results of Brexit yesterday. He was talking about the real world economy of mortgages and credit and inflation and recession that affects ordinary people's lives. His independent monetary policy committee is obliged to raise matters of this kind; not to do so would be a political gesture in itself. The reaction? The entertaining Jacob Rees-Mogg, Member for the 17th Century, suggested he should be fired. Damn right, shut the fool up. People on here will be rattling on about his vested interests. Somebody will say he knows nothing and that he got a prediction wrong in 1991. A polemic from some American website will be waved in our faces to prove that the Governor knows nothing. And on it will go.

And rightly so!

Could be worse though, people on here could try to denigrate a man with a lifetime of distinguished service to this country after spending a few minutes on a search to dig up some dirt to supposedly discredit him.

JC Footy Genius · May 13, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
I'm not disagreeing, just saying these arguments have been made before, many times, and been debated endlessly. I'd like to hear something new.

You should have read the link/article then. It was based on the new ONS data showing the real scale of immigration.

In all, the ONS now estimates a total of 2.4 million entered the country. In one year, mid-2014 to mid-2015, a quarter of a million Europeans came in according to the official measure, yet almost 700,000 bagged themselves a NI number.

The Gap, in other words, is more of a grand canyon. Evel Knievel couldn’t jump that. Suspicions that the figures were being grossly underestimated, perhaps to spare government blushes, are now confirmed. The extra number of EU migrants the ONS has found down the back of the sofa amounts to six Newcastles.

It’s a stupefying figure, which helps to explain the growing crisis in the NHS, with one migrant registering per minute with a GP in England and Wales.

Easy to dismiss if living in Germany obviously.

Boroseagull · May 13, 2016

5ways said:
What if I told you that unemployment is at record lows, immigrants subside services in this country and the EU has actually eased the burden on the NHS we export old people which cost the French and Spanish govt a lot of free health care - far more than EU citizens cost our NHS 2. we import young nurses and doctors to staff our hospitals

But that is untrue. Us 'exported old people' transfer from the NHS legally and into [my case] the Spanish Health care system. I won't bother you with the efficiency of it but just to tell you that they invoice the DHSS each time it's used. The net cost to the Spanish Gvnt. is zero.

Lincoln Imp · May 13, 2016

JC Footy Genius said:
And rightly so!

Could be worse though, people on here could try to denigrate a man with a lifetime of distinguished service to this country after spending a few minutes on a search to dig up some dirt to supposedly discredit him.

Fair enough, I may have been suffering from end-of-season tension when I had a pop at that retired military man. But I did add this... "It's fine with me if he wants to go round telling the world that he's talking to dead Major Generals but, all things being equal, it doesn't make me feel that his views should outweigh those of more sober and numerous specialists." That point still stands - the Brexit supporters on here seem to regard any Breibart-quoted individual having a go at the EU as the holy grail while dismissing out of hand any words of warning from a hugely-experienced authority like Mark Carney, who is bound by statute to state the views of his committee. One poster claims that he has exceeded his remit (he hasn't) while you are happy with the notion that he simply represents vested interests and knows nothing.

5ways · May 13, 2016

Boroseagull said:
But that is untrue. Us 'exported old people' transfer from the NHS legally and into [my case] the Spanish Health care system. I won't bother you with the efficiency of it but just to tell you that they invoice the DHSS each time it's used. The net cost to the Spanish Gvnt. is zero.

Yes sorry didn't realise this. My mistake.

GT49er · May 13, 2016

Boroseagull said:
But that is untrue. Us 'exported old people' transfer from the NHS legally and into [my case] the Spanish Health care system. I won't bother you with the efficiency of it but just to tell you that they invoice the DHSS each time it's used. The net cost to the Spanish Gvnt. is zero.

Good point - beat me to it. And of course, it's still their British pensions that they receive. They actually put revenue INTO the Spanish economy.

Lincoln Imp · May 13, 2016

pastafarian said:
yes it is wrong
and yet she has said it

i dont know who she is and what weight she carries but how many people have just watched sky news and believed her lie?

Rather fewer than the number who believe Boris's lie about the auditors never signing off the EU accounts I imagine, but perhaps about the same as the number of gays taken in by the suggestion that they should vote "Leave" to get away from homophobic Europeans.

pastafarian · May 14, 2016

5ways said:
I don't know what you're trying to get at.
What else do you want?
It's just a snappy quote on a poster.

sigh

its very simple,i thought you might have understood, i cant get more simpler than this

why is NATO NOT mentioned in your snappy poster quote?

there must be a good reason surely

pastafarian · May 14, 2016

Something is puzzling me.

Perhaps [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] could clarify.
I am starting to notice the message from the Labour remain camp is very much based on we must stay in to protect workers rights and womens rights. Fair enough,they should be protected by all means.I havnt seen anyone say they should be diminished if we leave.
Lets say Corbyn wins in 2020 like he promises and we have left the EU.....why would a Labour Party in power but not in the EU deliberately reduce workers and women's rights.....surely they wouldnt.....so why is he saying his party might if the EU wasnt holding their hand.

seems a bit bonkers
surely he is not mental enough to be suggesting staying in the EU keeps the tories at bay

CheeseRolls · May 14, 2016

pastafarian said:
Something is puzzling me.

Perhaps [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] could clarify.
I am starting to notice the message from the Labour remain camp is very much based on we must stay in to protect workers rights and womens rights. Fair enough,they should be protected by all means.I havnt seen anyone say they should be diminished if we leave.
Lets say Corbyn wins in 2020 like he promises and we have left the EU.....why would a Labour Party in power but not in the EU deliberately reduce workers and women's rights.....surely they wouldnt.....so why is he saying his party might if the EU wasnt holding their hand.

seems a bit bonkers
surely he is not mental enough to be suggesting staying in the EU keeps the tories at bay

Isn't this a key part of the Euro "red tape" and regulation argument?
I would certainly expect less bureaucracy to include less labour regulation.

melias shoes · May 14, 2016

heathgate said:
We're doomed....... obviously.

You forgot the earth will stop spinning.

GT49er · May 14, 2016

CheeseRolls said:
Isn't this a key part of the Euro "red tape" and regulation argument?
I would certainly expect less bureaucracy to include less labour regulation.

You would expect Labour to reduce workers' rights?

:facepalm:

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