[Politics] Brexit

Chief Wiggum · Dec 24, 2016

This is an interesting read. An optimistic view of Brexit for both the left and the right, written by Andrew Marr.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/12/optimists-guide-brexit

beorhthelm · Dec 24, 2016

Baldseagull said:
There are a lot of these wise after the fact type pieces about at the moment, the truth is, the vast majority of leave voters quite liked the idea of telling the EU to do one, without thinking too much about the consequences. I don't buy in to the idea that what the people want is a democracy honest enough to reveal the trade offs and complexities of contemporary politics, they really don't want to have to think about it that much, they want someone to beat with a stick, and the EU got it this time.

you and the remainers like to parrort out this line, that the vote was only a protest. but we'd had a general election only 13 months before, so that doesnt really wash. you recognise that most leave voters wanted to tell the EU to do one, but for some reason assume they havent thought of any consequences. maybe they have and decided that it makes little difference to them, if they are struggleing, doing ok or well off, they'll be in the same boat more or less after Brexit. why cant you accept this train of thought? why must the public have thought and only come to the conclusion its best to stay in the EU? its terribly condecsending to constantly tell people they thought wrong, when they thought differently.

GoldWithFalmer · Dec 24, 2016

indeed....... just one such post to reiterate the point made..

Maldini said:
I'm the Remain camps worst nightmare.I'm the untouchable Brexit voter.I couldn't care less about facts and figures,trade deals,blah blah blha.I want out.

I'm in a bad marriage and I just want to dump this b....and go live on my own and do my own thing like before.
Couldn't care less if I lose the house and struggle for cash because I know I'll be happy.
Goodbye EU.Can't say it's been real because it's been crap.

beorhthelm said:
you and the remainers like to parrort out this line, that the vote was only a protest. but we'd had a general election only 13 months before, so that doesnt really wash. you recognise that most leave voters wanted to tell the EU to do one, but for some reason assume they havent thought of any consequences. maybe they have and decided that it makes little difference to them, if they are struggleing, doing ok or well off, they'll be in the same boat more or less after Brexit. why cant you accept this train of thought? why must the public have thought and only come to the conclusion its best to stay in the EU? its terribly condecsending to constantly tell people they thought wrong, when they thought differently.

JC Footy Genius · Dec 24, 2016

Strange how some people like to emphasise/quote the educational or socioeconomic background of many leave voters but don't want to accept their stated voting reasons.

Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” Just over one in eight (13%) said remaining would mean having no choice “about how the EU expanded its membership or its powers in the years ahead.” Only just over one in twenty (6%) said their main reason was that “when it comes to trade and the economy, the UK would benefit more from being outside the EU than from being part of it.”

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

Green Cross Code Man · Dec 24, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
The point surely is that while people voted Remain for various reasons, strong and weak, those reasons were usually connected to the EU. As the report indicated many Leave voters did so for reasons that were not so connected.

People voted for all sorts of reasons. I think though, that most people who voted leave, whatever their reason, wanted to leave. But anyway, the stats are fascinating as so many unlikely groups of people voted the same way.

Sorrel · Dec 24, 2016

My favourite stats for the referendum were those when each side was asked what they thought motivated the other:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/12/16/why-other-half-vote/

Leave voters think that remain voters were motivated by fear of leaving - rather than anything positive - while remain voters think that leave voters were mostly worried about immigration. Both sets of perceived reasons were a long way from the reasons given by each group when asked about themselves.

brighton fella · Dec 24, 2016

Sorrel said:
My favourite stats for the referendum were those when each side was asked what they thought motivated the other:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/12/16/why-other-half-vote/

Leave voters think that remain voters were motivated by fear of leaving - rather than anything positive - while remain voters think that leave voters were mostly worried about immigration. Both sets of perceived reasons were a long way from the reasons given by each group when asked about themselves.

Does it really matter what reasons people had for voting ..no use crying now over what type of person voted for what and what were their reasons for doing so. a bit late when the decision has already been made..

Let us just hope that the government can respect the decision made by majority and stick by it.. if however they don't and free movement of people does continue i fear that they will live to regret their decision,. as said let us hope and pray it don't come to that.
.

Green Cross Code Man · Dec 24, 2016

brighton fella said:
Does it really matter what reasons people had for voting ..no use crying now over what type of person voted for what and what were their reasons for doing so. a bit late when the decision has already been made..

Let us just hope that the government can respect the decision made by majority and stick by it.. if however they don't and free movement of people does continue i fear that they will live to regret their decision,. as said let us hope and pray it don't come to that.
.

Does it really matter? Well I would say it does. If we are to make Brexit successful, then we should try to understand why leavers voted leave in order to accommodate as realistically the leave voters wishes, and also, in the interests of cohesion and stability, try to understand why remain voters voted remain. It's human nature to reflect upon a momentous choice, you are free to do so, or free to leave it to others if you wish.

brighton fella · Dec 24, 2016

Green Cross Code Man said:
Does it really matter? Well I would say it does. If we are to make Brexit successful, then we should try to understand why leavers voted leave in order to accommodate as realistically the leave voters wishes, and also, in the interests of cohesion and stability, try to understand why remain voters voted remain. It's human nature to reflect upon a momentous choice, you are free to do so, or free to leave it to others if you wish.

Do you not know why leave voters voted in the way they did, after all this time are you seriously saying that you still have no idea as to why ? sorry mate but if you don't know by now then you never will,
Ask leavers on here exactly why they did and they will all tell you the same thing. the reason why should not need to be repeated over and over again.

Green Cross Code Man · Dec 24, 2016

brighton fella said:
Do you not know why leave voters voted in the way they did, after all this time are you seriously saying that you still have no idea as to why ? sorry mate but if you don't know by now then you never will,
Ask leavers on here exactly why they did and they will all tell you the same thing. the reason why should not need to be repeated over and over again.

I do not know why everyone who voted leave chose to do so. There are a variety of reasons, many of which have been stated on this and other threads infinitum. I know the reasons I voted leave and I believe the reasons people give when they state their choice. But these reasons are varying. Why do you think you know the reason why every lever voted leave? There is not one simple answer, what you say is simply not true.

vegster · Dec 24, 2016

pastafarian said:
just over 6 month anniversary since the majority voted to take the country back.

Happy Brexmas everyone!

Indeed, let us rejoice and be happy for our last Christmas ! Lets max our credit cards and dance on the edge of the precipice .... who cares anymore? The handcart is booked and will arrive on schedule !

GoldWithFalmer · Dec 24, 2016

Merry Christmas to my fellow Brexiters.....years from now we will be remembered for saving this once great nation,although it may not seem like it now...

Merry Christmas to Remain too.....

brighton fella · Dec 24, 2016

Green Cross Code Man said:
I do not know why everyone who voted leave chose to do so. There are a variety of reasons, many of which have been stated on this and other threads infinitum. I know the reasons I voted leave and I believe the reasons people give when they state their choice. But these reasons are varying. Why do you think you know the reason why every lever voted leave? There is not one simple answer, what you say is simply not true.

I voted to leave for several reasons . the main was that i was fed up with immigration and the impact it had upon our infrastructure another was that i had no trust at all in the EU.. in.the direction it was heading and the corruption within it's parliament.

Don't care what anyone says the top choice why leavers made the decision they made was to gain back sovereignty and have full control over immigration . .

Lincoln Imp · Dec 24, 2016

Green Cross Code Man said:
I do not know why everyone who voted leave chose to do so. There are a variety of reasons, many of which have been stated on this and other threads infinitum. I know the reasons I voted leave and I believe the reasons people give when they state their choice. But these reasons are varying. Why do you think you know the reason why every lever voted leave? There is not one simple answer, what you say is simply not true.

A sober and reflective post that proves that people of very different opinions can agree on issues of fact. I'll read no more of this thread until after Christmas.

studio150 · Dec 24, 2016

GoldWithFalmer · Dec 24, 2016

Those remaindeer can end up on the shelf easier too as joints and burgers etc with a customs union,best avoid contagion and keep sub species and with that i draw my Christmas truce on the thread.

GWF closed

larus · Dec 28, 2016

From the Telegraph (Note - quotes are not from them).

Another NAIL in the Remain Team Campaign Lies.

London will remain the world’s leading financial centre in spite of Brexit, a senior City figure said today as Google vowed to continue to invest in the UK after it leaves the EU.

Mark Boleat, policy chairman of the City of London Corporation, said while there was "nervousness" about Brexit, he had "no doubt" that London will remain "the world's leading financial centre".

It came as Matt Brittin, the head of Google's business and operations in Europe, said his company would continue to invest in Britain because it is "good at the internet".

Mr Brittin told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme that the company was looking to focus on "big trends" amid the uncertainty surrounding Britain's exit from the EU.

Their comments came after an economist who played a leading role in the Remain campaign admitted that Michael Gove had been right to say that "people are fed up with experts".

Stephanie Flanders, a former BBC presenter who now works for JP Morgan, said that over the past few years economists have been "wrong in some pretty big areas".

Ms Flanders, who appeared in a Britain Stronger in Europe advert during the referendum campaign, said they have been "victims of group-think" and "out of touch".

During the referendum campaign Mr Gove, the then Justice Secretary, was a fierce critic of "project fear" and said: "I think people in this country have had enough of experts."

Also speaking on the Today programme during a debate with Mr Gove, Ms Flanders agreed that there was a "long record" of economists being wrong on their direct forecasts.

She said: "You get group-think, you can certainly get elites being out of touch, and we've seen all of that and that's why I think, in a sense, Michael had captured something with that phrase that he's explained better in this piece, about people being fed up with experts, I think people are fed up with experts."

Helena Morrissey, the chairwoman of Newton Investment Management, accused political and financial leaders of being "detached from reality" in the wake of the Brexit vote.

She added that too many leaders in business and politics operate in "a narrow comfort zone".

portslade seagull · Dec 28, 2016

larus said:
From the Telegraph (Note - quotes are not from them).

Another NAIL in the Remain Team Campaign Lies.

London will remain the world’s leading financial centre in spite of Brexit, a senior City figure said today as Google vowed to continue to invest in the UK after it leaves the EU.

Mark Boleat, policy chairman of the City of London Corporation, said while there was "nervousness" about Brexit, he had "no doubt" that London will remain "the world's leading financial centre".

It came as Matt Brittin, the head of Google's business and operations in Europe, said his company would continue to invest in Britain because it is "good at the internet".

Mr Brittin told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme that the company was looking to focus on "big trends" amid the uncertainty surrounding Britain's exit from the EU.

Their comments came after an economist who played a leading role in the Remain campaign admitted that Michael Gove had been right to say that "people are fed up with experts".

Stephanie Flanders, a former BBC presenter who now works for JP Morgan, said that over the past few years economists have been "wrong in some pretty big areas".

Ms Flanders, who appeared in a Britain Stronger in Europe advert during the referendum campaign, said they have been "victims of group-think" and "out of touch".

During the referendum campaign Mr Gove, the then Justice Secretary, was a fierce critic of "project fear" and said: "I think people in this country have had enough of experts."

Also speaking on the Today programme during a debate with Mr Gove, Ms Flanders agreed that there was a "long record" of economists being wrong on their direct forecasts.

She said: "You get group-think, you can certainly get elites being out of touch, and we've seen all of that and that's why I think, in a sense, Michael had captured something with that phrase that he's explained better in this piece, about people being fed up with experts, I think people are fed up with experts."

Helena Morrissey, the chairwoman of Newton Investment Management, accused political and financial leaders of being "detached from reality" in the wake of the Brexit vote.

She added that too many leaders in business and politics operate in "a narrow comfort zone".

I think most knew this anyway but like sheep have to keep trotting out the same scare stories. How dare Britain keep all these jobs and more coming in as well. Its should be all doom I say all doom !!!!

Pretty pink fairy · Dec 28, 2016

brighton fella said:
I voted to leave for several reasons . the main was that i was fed up with immigration and the impact it had upon our infrastructure another was that i had no trust at all in the EU.. in.the direction it was heading and the corruption within it's parliament.

Don't care what anyone says the top choice why leavers made the decision they made was to gain back sovereignty and have full control over immigration . .

yep WITHOUT A DOUBT . no place for weak defeatists in our march(heads held high) out of the EU
regards
DR

GoldWithFalmer · Dec 28, 2016

Pretty pink fairy said:
yep WITHOUT A DOUBT . no place for weak defeatists in our march(heads held high) out of the EU
regards
DR

Roll on March,the promotion run in and Article 50 the start of out of the EU..

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