[Politics] Brexit

LlcoolJ · Feb 26, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
Notice you also failed to answer my question... Are you saying there is no association between support for Brexit and 80%+ voting for parties supporting Brexit?

Disingenuous as you're just setting a trap for someone to call you out and you'll then say "HA! But there were people who supported ALL parties who voted for Brexit so ner!".

The 80% thing is bullshit and very poor on your part. As you well know. It means nothing.

LlcoolJ · Feb 26, 2018

**** me why am I posting on this cesspit of a thread. I blame you JC. And I'm out, again......

JC Footy Genius · Feb 26, 2018

LlcoolJ said:
He did nail it though. No point in arguing with a custard brained tit whose grasp (and use) of "facts" is akin to a shouty woman banging on the door of Poundland on a Sunday morning because she can't tell the time.

Open goal to be called a prick really.

LlcoolJ said:
Disingenuous as you're just setting a trap for someone to call you out and you'll then say "HA! But there were people who supported ALL parties who voted for Brexit so ner!".

The 80% thing is bullshit and very poor on your part. As you well know. It means nothing.

LlcoolJ said:
**** me why am I posting on this cesspit of a thread. I blame you JC. And I'm out, again......

I wasn't really needed but thanks for your contributions, full house tonight :fishing:

Lincoln Imp · Feb 26, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
How is stating an indisputable fact, inflating anything? I even clarified my point further with you at the time stating people vote for numerous reasons but as usual, you attempt to misrepresent my position suggesting I claimed all 80%+ supported Brexit.

Notice you also failed to answer my question... Are you saying there is no association between support for Brexit and 80%+ voting for parties supporting Brexit?

I can't be arsed to play your silly games this evening. Claim whatever victory you want.

LlcoolJ · Feb 26, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
I wasn't really needed

You never are.

nicko31 · Feb 26, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Obviously it's early days yet and Corbyn's approach might run into headwinds but it seems to tick some pretty good boxes:

1. In a very rough and ready way it does reflect a 48/52 referendum vote; it's quite possibly the least divisive position available as..................

2. We will no longer be members of the EU. No MEPS, no seat on the European Council and never to be subsumed in the 'nightmare' of a European Super State (which Idon't think was ever a realistic issue but many do)

3. It's the only way around the Northern Ireland border issue

4. Reductions to contributions to the EU will now be 'on the table' if not yet a given

5. It will appeal to our partners within the EU more that the May alternative i.e. they might take this rather more seriously than the Bojo-type nonsense we've inflicted on them

6. It will safeguard jobs (especially in the Labour heartlands) that are dependent on EU trade - although our services sector will not emerge unscathed

7. It will provide a platform for controlling immigration as we will no longer be in the single market

8. It will facilitate continuing (and future) trade deals made by the EU with 3rd party countries

9. It will allow us the freedom to develop our own policies on agriculture, fisheries, animal welfare and just about anything else

10. It will build consensus across the political divide within parliament - and with (possibly) Scotland, wales and N.Ireland

It won't allow us to look for new tariff free trade outside the EU but there is absolutely no evidence that this was ever going to happen

Of course all the points I make can be contended, but when you look at the potentially catastrophic alternative developing under May, I know which of the 2 I'd prefer. So we await May's speech on Friday................

-

Good summary

His approach is a start and has been welcomed by business today.

All we've seen from the Tories so far a dreamland stuff, lets see come Friday

beorhthelm · Feb 26, 2018

nicko31 said:
Good summary

His approach is a start and has been welcomed by business today.

All we've seen from the Tories so far a dreamland stuff, lets see come Friday

his approach is very similar to the government. he wants a customs union, free trade EU while they determine tariffs with world. they want free trade while having no tariffs imposed. they both want out of single market, presumably out of jurisdiction of ECJ etc. im surprised that this similarity in policy is overlooked by the remainers, maybe keeping something called a customs union is enough?

Mental Lental · Feb 27, 2018

vegster said:
I do hope we get a working Customs Union with Europe coupled with a Labour government... the exodus on here would be fantastic ! ......Maybe our Swivel Eyed Crew would emigrate as they couldn't live under a Labour government, they'd spontaneously combust .... but where would they go? Europe ?

I'd suggest Japan, another inward looking xenophobic island nation with a naval Imperial history. One small problem with this though is that they only take graduates. Obviously given the correlation between lack of education and proBrexit voting, it is unlikely that any of them have this option.

Baldseagull · Feb 27, 2018

beorhthelm said:
his approach is very similar to the government. he wants a customs union, free trade EU while they determine tariffs with world. they want free trade while having no tariffs imposed. they both want out of single market, presumably out of jurisdiction of ECJ etc. im surprised that this similarity in policy is overlooked by the remainers, maybe keeping something called a customs union is enough?

I prefer it if we are kneecapped in just one leg rather than both.

clapham_gull · Feb 27, 2018

bashlsdir said:
Labour as well as some Tories are not respecting the result of the referendum. We voted to Leave the EU, we didn't vote to go back on, it cannot be clearer than that. Not a lot more to say about it really. If Brexit doesn't happen it would be an absolute disgrace.

There is actually much more to say.

Problem is (and this was always the problem) the vote wasn't like a general election. If you vote for a party and don't like them you get the chance to vote them out next time.

This isn't the case and the result has not only split the country down the middle, it's split the interpretation of the result which ever way you voted.

A more intelligent debate would have been around trying to ascertain the public's dissatisfaction with the EU.

A vote for "I'm on the fence, but the terms of our membership need re-evaluating" would have probably won the day.

Everyone on here can argue all they like. Both are "right" and aren't going to be shifted either way.

What I find astonishing is the abuse certain politicians are getting by trying to find a middle way to bring everything and everyone (albeit in part) together.

The just over 50% of the population who voted out DID NOT on mass vote in a dictator who wants to abolish democracy.

How selfish and shame on those who think so.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Feb 27, 2018

In advance of Liam Fox's speech, this is the view of the former Permanent Secretary (maybe not so permanent, actually) at his department: I suspect he knows of what he speaks:

'You’re giving up a three-course meal, which is the depth and intensity of our trade relationships across the European Union and partners now, for the promise of a packet of crisps in the future if we manage to do trade deals outside the European Union which aren’t going to compensate for what we’re giving up. You just have to look at the arithmetic - it doesn’t add up I’m afraid.'

Fox has been very active in his travels (as he should be) reaching out to new trade partners. But I wonder how many deals he has set up? Surely his speech will have zero credibility unless he can show some convincing evidence that there are specific trade deals out there waiting to happen? We cannot base our nation's future on a few hunches. Even hard core Brexiteers must want something more than the customary vague statements about the growth in non-EU markets. And if Fox can't provide it, then who can??

nicko31 · Feb 27, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
In advance of Liam Fox's speech, this is the view of the former Permanent Secretary (maybe not so permanent, actually) at his department: I suspect he knows of what he speaks:

'You’re giving up a three-course meal, which is the depth and intensity of our trade relationships across the European Union and partners now, for the promise of a packet of crisps in the future if we manage to do trade deals outside the European Union which aren’t going to compensate for what we’re giving up. You just have to look at the arithmetic - it doesn’t add up I’m afraid.'

Fox has been very active in his travels (as he should be) reaching out to new trade partners. But I wonder how many deals he has set up? Surely his speech will have zero credibility unless he can show some convincing evidence that there are specific trade deals out there waiting to happen? We cannot base our nation's future on a few hunches. Even hard core Brexiteers must want something more than the customary vague statements about the growth in non-EU markets. And if Fox can't provide it, then who can??

Seems to recall back in Sept 2016 Fox said that all our trade deals would be pretty much done and dusted by now.

Would any Brexiteers want to take this gamble with their own money? The risk reward doesn't add up

ManOfSussex · Feb 27, 2018

Hastings gull said:
Please note everyone, that not all people in Hastings behave like a spoilt brat who is unable, yet again, to cope with others' opinions.

portslade seagull said:
A proper snowflake which is rather apt atm

Oh the irony of your usual pompous indignation Hastings Gull coupled with a bit of name calling. :lolol:

I can cope with other peoples opinions actually, I really can't be bothered anymore to engage with anonymous trolling/bot activist accounts like the one I did last night anymore though. If you wish to play silly games with that trolling user name though, be my guest.

portslade seagull - Best not to call people snowflakes if you're a broflake like you. :thumbsup:

ManOfSussex · Feb 27, 2018

Wont happen, but Sinn Fein being urged to take up their seats in Westminister now -

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...d-defend-ireland-sinn-fein-is-urged-hc5p08x9r

https://www.independent.ie/irish-ne...in-to-take-seats-in-westminster-36647727.html

Curiouser and curiouser.

nicko31 · Feb 27, 2018

beorhthelm said:
his approach is very similar to the government. he wants a customs union, free trade EU while they determine tariffs with world. they want free trade while having no tariffs imposed. they both want out of single market, presumably out of jurisdiction of ECJ etc. im surprised that this similarity in policy is overlooked by the remainers, maybe keeping something called a customs union is enough?

20 months in and we know little about the governments approach, still have their heads in the sand praying the tide won't come in

nicko31 · Feb 27, 2018

ManOfSussex said:
Wont happen, but Sinn Fein being urged to take up their seats in Westminister now -

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...d-defend-ireland-sinn-fein-is-urged-hc5p08x9r

https://www.independent.ie/irish-ne...in-to-take-seats-in-westminster-36647727.html

That would almost be funny

beorhthelm · Feb 27, 2018

nicko31 said:
20 months in and we know little about the governments approach, still have their heads in the sand praying the tide won't come in

i believe the government have given their approach, we're leaving the EU, single market, customs union etc. its certainly wavered back and forth on the details of implementation and how to address problems, but the general position has been clear, many simply dont like it so have rejected it. Corbyn's position is pretty much the same, he's take a policy position light on detail and off course he doesn't have to worry about implementation. i'm somewhat surprised how little he's had to give to gain acceptance, i thought being in the single market, the freedom of movement, the ECJ, MEPs, member of European Commission etc had more importance to remainers.

Baldseagull · Feb 27, 2018

There is potential reward, but it is just potential and has a large up front cost.
Like buying some teenage football talent for millions today, they could be a decent buy in the long run, but the odds are they will mostly be average, and the getting them means we have to sell our best players today.
The Brexiteers are saying our best players are has beens, their wages are £350 million a week and will not be so great in the future, we need to ditch them and sign up a load of kids with potential.
Trouble is none will be ready to play until the season after next, so we are nailed on for two consecutive relegations before we might start making a comeback. My reckoning is that we will be like Leeds, drop two divisions, be everyone elses cup final in the lower leagues for a while, so we can feel important, climb up a bit, but never quite recover the status we had before, and get used to being second divison whilst singing We are the Champions, Champions of Europe.
Never know, maybe we let football go and adopt Baseball (rounders) as the National Sport anyway, or Kabaddi (tag).

The Clamp · Feb 27, 2018

beorhthelm said:
i believe the government have given their approach, we're leaving the EU, single market, customs union etc. its certainly wavered back and forth on the details of implementation and how to address problems, but the general position has been clear, many simply dont like it so have rejected it. Corbyn's position is pretty much the same, he's take a policy position light on detail and off course he doesnt have to worry about implementation.

I've seen you Brexiteeers post some nonsense before but that takes the biscuit.

ManOfSussex · Feb 27, 2018

Things reportedly could get rather difficult for May when this gets announced tomorrow.

[tweet]968175176390205440[/tweet]

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